The most important thing that schools can teach a child is how to think and process information, not the information itself.

 

That is not done exclusively in math class and can be done in a way that the kid is also learning something useful.

 

Preparing a budget can do the same thing that learning matrices can do in how to think and process information.

So, HS's should be about teaching them things that they will never use in their lives?

 

I cannot sell to a 15 year old that matrices is an important thing for them to learn. Because IT IS NOT. I have made it through 42 years of my life and never used matrices. And that is perfectly okay.

 

Outside of your classroom, when was the last time you had to tell someone about the Grant administration? The events of the War of 1812? Write (or read for that matter) a haiku? Recount anything from Henry David Thoreau? Do something of or related to gym class? Just because I'll never take the integral of anything in my life again, doesn't mean I should never have learned it. I think our brain benefits much more from learning than simply knowing the information processed.

AN intro level calculus course. Differentials and simple integrals, including some applications/ word problems.

 

 

For what it's worth I never took any calculus courses.

So, HS's should be about teaching them things that they will never use in their lives?

 

I cannot sell to a 15 year old that matrices is an important thing for them to learn. Because IT IS NOT. I have made it through 42 years of my life and never used matrices. And that is perfectly okay.

 

There is other ways to teach higher level of thinking besides teaching them things that they won't use in life.

 

First, higher math can be used to help understand what goes on all around us, so I think it is useful. We'll have to disagree about the importance of learning the logical thinking skills associated with higher math. I really believe that most kids are very capable of learning elementary calculus. Making it a requirement for those kids would benefit them.

Outside of your classroom, when was the last time you had to tell someone about the Grant administration? The events of the War of 1812? Write (or read for that matter) a haiku? Recount anything from Henry David Thoreau? Do something of or related to gym class? Just because I'll never take the integral of anything in my life again, doesn't mean I should never have learned it. I think our brain benefits much more from learning than simply knowing the information processed.

 

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

Those who don't know matrices are not missing a thing.

 

When is the last time you have been to a gym class? They do weightlifting, lifetime fitness, study nutrition, as well as go bowling, snow skiing, golfing and things that teach the kids to have an active life style. Just this year my daughter spent weeks with a pedometer on looking at how active her lifestyle is.

 

Henry David Thoreau, I understand your point, except to say READING is the #1 skill that schools need to teach. Without it, you can't do much of anything else.

 

I agree with your comment on the brain, just not sure requiring every student irregardless of their abilities to take trig and the like is a useful endeavor.

Outside of your classroom, when was the last time you had to tell someone about the Grant administration? The events of the War of 1812? Write (or read for that matter) a haiku? Recount anything from Henry David Thoreau? Do something of or related to gym class? Just because I'll never take the integral of anything in my life again, doesn't mean I should never have learned it. I think our brain benefits much more from learning than simply knowing the information processed.

 

 

I use my historical knowledge on a regular basis. And I'm not even in the classroom yet.

That is not done exclusively in math class and can be done in a way that the kid is also learning something useful.

 

Preparing a budget can do the same thing that learning matrices can do in how to think and process information.

 

 

I deliberately took a major in college that did not require math: Broadcasting. (unless you count the addition/subtraction in backtiming)

 

But I also minored in Religion and Philosophy. (As Steve Martin said: "Took just enough Philosophy to screw me up for the rest of my life. )

 

My point is that Calculus and/or Trig is not the end all / of all in process thinking. Whether it is literature that stimulates the thought processes, or history that allows us to reason why some issues are still prevelant by looking at them through the lens of historical events (more needs to be done there if you ask me), or the reasoning that comes with the sciences - there are many things beyond the math realm that promote and stimulate critical thinking and analysis. It all depends upon who the teacher is.

First, higher math can be used to help understand what goes on all around us, so I think it is useful. We'll have to disagree about the importance of learning the logical thinking skills associated with higher math. I really believe that most kids are very capable of learning elementary calculus. Making it a requirement for those kids would benefit them.

 

I don't know matrices and am okay with understanding what is going on around me.

 

You go into HS math classes today and they can do an algebraic equation but ask them to find out 1/8th of something or 20% of a sale price and the lights behind the eyes go off. We are producing the dumbest smart kids today. You want to blow their minds, have them find 20% of 1/2. They are done.

I deliberately took a major in college that did not require math: Broadcasting. (unless you count the addition/subtraction in backtiming)

 

But I also minored in Religion and Philosophy. (As Steve Martin said: "Took just enough Philosophy to screw me up for the rest of my life. )

 

My point is that Calculus and/or Trig is not the end all / of all in process thinking. Whether it is literature that stimulates the thought processes, or history that allows us to reason why some issues are still prevelant by looking at them through the lens of historical events (more needs to be done there if you ask me), or the reasoning that comes with the sciences - there are many things beyond the math realm that promote and stimulate critical thinking and analysis. It all depends upon who the teacher is.

 

And their support system at home.

And their support system at home.

 

 

Like it or not, Hillary wasn't all wrong. It takes a community (village) to make it the best we can be.

Like it or not, Hillary wasn't all wrong. It takes a community (village) to make it the best we can be.

 

The one thing that I have agreed with Hillary on.

 

Oh and I admire her for sticking with her commitment to her marriage and trying to work through it.

Like it or not, Hillary wasn't all wrong. It takes a community (village) to make it the best we can be.

Great sound bite, but it's her definition of a community that scares me.

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

Those who don't know matrices are not missing a thing.

 

It's easy to compare something as large and abstract as history to a very specific mathematic function.

 

When is the last time you have been to a gym class? They do weightlifting, lifetime fitness, study nutrition, as well as go bowling, snow skiing, golfing and things that teach the kids to have an active life style. Just this year my daughter spent weeks with a pedometer on looking at how active her lifestyle is.

 

So what about the kids that will never use any of that stuff?

 

Henry David Thoreau, I understand your point, except to say READING is the #1 skill that schools need to teach. Without it, you can't do much of anything else.

 

I agree that reading is important. But how do you differentiate between doing matrices and reading Walden?

 

I agree with your comment on the brain, just not sure requiring every student irregardless of their abilities to take trig and the like is a useful endeavor.

 

Because their abilities should change. There needs to be a systemic shakeup in the education system to have students learning earlier, so by the time they are in High School they can do trig. Upper level math was hard for me because I never had any sort of grounding in lower level math.

 

I use my historical knowledge on a regular basis. And I'm not even in the classroom yet.

 

You don't count. :irked:

It's easy to compare something as large and abstract as history to a very specific mathematic function.

 

 

See I don't see history as large and abstract. I see it as very precise and small when you get to the first source of things.

 

History to me teaches us about cause and effect.

History teaches us about psychology and the human condition.

History teaches us methodolgy when we exam it we see the points the journey leads us to and why the journey goes where it does.

 

I'm not arguing against higher mathmatics Habib. I just think that to narrow it down to just mathmatics as the only discipline that teaches us thought process, didactic reasoning or deductive thinking.

It's easy to compare something as large and abstract as history to a very specific mathematic function.

 

 

 

So what about the kids that will never use any of that stuff?

 

 

 

I agree that reading is important. But how do you differentiate between doing matrices and reading Walden?

 

 

 

Because their abilities should change. There needs to be a systemic shakeup in the education system to have students learning earlier, so by the time they are in High School they can do trig. Upper level math was hard for me because I never had any sort of grounding in lower level math.

 

 

 

You don't count. :irked:

 

Kids will never use nutrition or an active lifestyle? With the latest studies on obesity, you are probably right in they don't, but they need to.

Reading a grouping of 6-9 numbers is not reading.

 

Hatz makes a great point.

 

And again, we have pushed this higher level math to the point, that we overlooking KNOWING the multiplication, how to handle decimals, percentages, and fractions. Things that what was referred to earlier as the "lowest common denominator" WILL use in everyday life.