The pill is not only contraceptive but it can actually be abortifacient. Simply because the church's stance on a particular issue may seen antiquated, is no reason or excuse to defy the laws of the church. God gave us free will to do as we choose, however, I do not see free will as being a justifiaction for making an improper choice.

 

Is your first sentence agreeing with me? That is how I read it, but that then seemed strange when you went into the offensive later.

 

"An improper choice?" Wow, so much for "....let no man judge..."

So than you won't judge me if I decide that I have a problem with the 5th commandment and no longer wish to abide by it?

So than you won't judge me if I decide that I have a problem with the 5th commandment and no longer wish to abide by it?

 

Will I think less of you as a human? Maybe; but to be honest, I haven't met your Mother and Father so it's hard for me to answer.

 

Did I miss the Abortion issue on the tablets that Moses hauled down from the Mountain?

 

I just think you (pl) condemning someone else's opinion as "improper" wreaks of holier-than-thou. That is my point.

 

The more I think about this Bishop's stance the more I think it is simple grand-standing....which obviously only strengthens my disagreement with his public stance.

I'll be the bad guy here, I think it's a slippery slope.

 

What about a woman who is on the Pill? Does she get communion? I think the Church has many antiquated stances, and using the Free Will that God gave you to decide where you fall on said issues should be trumpeted....not excommunicated (in this day and age).

 

Reading this, and then seeing the "hooray" responses here, it isn't hard to see why: a) the number of practicing Catholics in this Country is declining; b) the number of parishoners in this Country that have migrated to non-denominational services; c) Catholics are so often painted as elitist and close-minded; d) only 33% of Catholics claim to attend a Mass every week down from 44% in 1987.

 

 

Don't make me go all Dogma on you! :lol:

 

I produced a link not long ago that actually showed the number of practicing Catholics in this country is increasing. I don't have time to look for it right now, but I'll get it soon.

Don't make me go all Dogma on you! :lol:

 

I produced a link not long ago that actually showed the number of practicing Catholics in this country is increasing. I don't have time to look for it right now, but I'll get it soon.

 

 

Than the trend from '87 to '04 has reversed on a dime....doubting that.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2004-11-07-church-main_x.htm

I'll be the bad guy here, I think it's a slippery slope.

 

What about a woman who is on the Pill? Does she get communion? I think the Church has many antiquated stances, and using the Free Will that God gave you to decide where you fall on said issues should be trumpeted....not excommunicated (in this day and age).

 

Reading this, and then seeing the "hooray" responses here, it isn't hard to see why: a) the number of practicing Catholics in this Country is declining; b) the number of parishoners in this Country that have migrated to non-denominational services; c) Catholics are so often painted as elitist and close-minded; d) only 33% of Catholics claim to attend a Mass every week down from 44% in 1987.

 

So the Catholic church should amend/abandon their views in order to keep the people in the pews? This is similar to when Pope Benedict came out reaffirming that the Catholic church is the one true church; most people criticized him for sticking to his beliefs.

 

Yes, God gives you free will, that isn't a free pass to pick and choose your beliefs and stay in the Church. Rudy Guiliani is free to support abortion, but he won't receive the Holy Sacrifice on Sundays (not that he cares).

Too bad that the Bishop in question can't also deny him the Republican nomination .

I don't believe for one second that you actually believe your last sentence.

 

Secondly, I have never typed that a priest should be omniscient. I AM saying that not all priests apply the doctrine 100% of the time when they KNOW of certain situations.

 

I would actually be curious to see if this particular priest is 100% consistent. I hope that he is.

 

 

That was meant as "Were I in your shoes I would consider a change in denomination."

 

Not me personally. Catholic till the day I die here.

Don't make me go all Dogma on you! :lol:

 

I produced a link not long ago that actually showed the number of practicing Catholics in this country is increasing. I don't have time to look for it right now, but I'll get it soon.

 

 

Here you go:

 

http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=23906

That was meant as "Were I in your shoes I would consider a change in denomination."

 

 

Based on what?

The post that I quoted originally.

 

My original point dealt with general inconsistencies and not the issue of abortion views. The issue of divorce and annullment is a perfect example of where I see priests ignorning the Catholic teachings. Thus, I'm not as impressed when they "take a stand."

 

To which I responded:

 

If you have issue with a priest applying the teachings of the church when they have the information with which to do so then I would consider a change in denomination.

 

 

Meaning "I" in the figurative sense.

 

Based on what?

 

Hence the comment.

So the Catholic church should amend/abandon their views in order to keep the people in the pews?

 

No, I'm suggesting (like many, including several Bishops, 31 of which signed a petition to ask the Church to consider the issue) that it is time to reconvene an Ecumenical Council (read: Vatican III) and take a look at the Church's stances on particular issues. It has been, what, 45 years, since the last Council convened to establish the Church's doctrine(s). I think it is high time to get together again and make sure that the Church stays on top of issues in this fast-changing world that we live in.

 

By the way, if you don't think the Catholic Church (especially in this Country) is concerned about their declining numbers (partnered with escalating costs in Catholic Education) than I'd politely suggest you aren't being realistic.

The post that I quoted originally.

 

 

 

To which I responded:

 

 

 

Meaning "I" in the figurative sense.

 

 

 

Hence the comment.

 

So you're saying that if a lifelong Catholic has a criticism of the Church that he should consider changing denominations?

So you're saying that if a lifelong Catholic has a criticism of the Church that he should consider changing denominations?

 

I believe he is, so be quiet, do what you're told, and get in line.

First, anyone who believes abortion should be OK cannot call themselves a Catholic, IMO. Understanding how one could be in a position and make that choice, and supporting abortion are two different things. Understanding the position of those who choose abortion is the key to finding ways to prevent abortion.

 

Secondly, I can agree a Vatican III might be in order. But I also think that with the current pope in the Vatican, there may be a reversal of the more liberal aspects of Vatican II, versus any changes relative to the Catholic position on birth control, women as priests, or married priests.

 

Thirdly, there is nothing wrong with criticism of the Church. The problem I have is that there seems to be a trend to act as you want, regardless of the fact that you KNOW the Church teaches against it (ie birth control, pre-marital sex, etc), and then sit back and defend yourself by saying that it's OK to criticize the Church.

 

IMO, true Catholics abide by the doctrines, the teachings, the laws despite what they would personally prefer. Remember, the Faith isn't about what makes it easier for man as a human being. Faith is about saving your soul.