I totally disagree with your conclusion. If more people took the time to turn in reports of these types of incidents to the KHSAA and the KHSAA had more and better investigative resources, there would be better enforcement. Again, I may be naive, but I don't presuppose that people will lie, particularly the high profile person-coach that you refer to (and I may be stupid too, as I don't know whom you are referring to). And again, unless you observed it or were directly involved in the incident, I would caution you that if you heard it second hand, the chances are probably pretty good that what you heard happened may not actually have happened. As a lawyer, I know very well that what people hear happened, really did not happen in many, many cases. And I would throw out another caution, the public schools themselves do not have entirely clean hands when it comes to violating the KHSAA rules. Those who live in glass houses shouldn't start going around carelessly throwing stones.

 

 

Finally, and I should have stated this earlier, doesn't BGP have a rule that states we aren't to talk about or make allegations about illegal activity on here; rather it is to be reported to the KHSAA. I realize that you first disclosed the alleged violation to support your point that you don't think better investigative action would lead to better enforcement (which position I totally disagree with), but nonetheless, if you think there was a violation, then call the KHSAA and report. Otherwise you become a part of the problem. If it doesn't bother you enough to do that, then don't bother complaining about it on here.

LN It is good to hear from a public school parent who realizes that parents, public or private, talk to each other. To think otherwise is ridiculous. I agree that a lot of public schools don't take the time and effort to extole the benefits of their schools, yet they don't want other private schools from doing this. If your public school really is the best choice for students TELL them why. Don't just expect they will attend and then complain when they don't. You make a number of other great points as to why public schools complain but do nothing about it. Congrats on being reasonable and seeing both sides of the story.

Yes, I was using my illustration as an example of what happens and support my contention, rightly or wrongly, that stronger enforcement will not cover all aspects of this issue. Couple that with my experience with the foot-dragging by the KHSAA when actual, proven allegations are reported. I agree that these type of activities happen on both sides and if the KHSAA WOULD investigate aggressively each and every report and work to severely punish those found guilty in a timely manner, most of the problems would cease. I also agree that everyone should promote their school, the problem arises when it is done with the primary goal is to convince above-average athletes to attend. I still contend that those on the public side that pushed for things such as Prop 2 did so because they viewed the enforcement of the KHSAA as inept.

 

Again, the scenario I described supposedly happened at another school. Had it happened to the program/school I support, I would have reported it. I don't know if they will or did.

Yes, I was using my illustration as an example of what happens and support my contention, rightly or wrongly, that stronger enforcement will not cover all aspects of this issue. Couple that with my experience with the foot-dragging by the KHSAA when actual, proven allegations are reported. I agree that these type of activities happen on both sides and if the KHSAA WOULD investigate aggressively each and every report and work to severely punish those found guilty in a timely manner, most of the problems would cease. I also agree that everyone should promote their school, the problem arises when it is done with the primary goal is to convince above-average athletes to attend. I still contend that those on the public side that pushed for things such as Prop 2 did so because they viewed the enforcement of the KHSAA as inept.

Again, the scenario I described supposedly happened at another school. Had it happened to the program/school I support, I would have reported it. I don't know if they will or did.

 

 

Then why would the public side vote down the private school's proposal that would have mandeated better funding and personel for investigation of complaints? Maybe because they don't want the added scrutiny?

Adding 100 investigators would do no good if the KHSAA is inept in the process. I'm for all the scrutiny possible.

Adding 100 investigators would do no good if the KHSAA is inept in the process. I'm for all the scrutiny possible.

That's one of you. Since you acknowledge that what you see as improprieties go on from both the public and private side, then please explain to me how you see the public schools in any way shape or form being justified in their efforts to vilify the private schools. Also since you seem to imply that the KHSAA is inept then how do you or anyone expect them to deal with this whole new level of bureaucracy?

I don't think they will deal with it very well at all. I was not involved in the process so I can not speak for the group that pushed this. I speak out only because the program I support has had its fair share of problems with parochial schools encouraging athletes in our feeder schools to attend. We did turn in a school and they were punished, BUT it took nearly three years of constant nagging on our part to get the KHSAA to act. That is why I say the KHSAA is inept in pursuing these type of actions. If a verifiable act of recruiting happens and is reported, there is no way it should take 3 years for the KHSAA to investigate and produce findings.

When exactly do students become the property of public schools?

 

Maybe, just maybe the evidence wasn't as cut and dry as you seem to believe and that's why it took the KHSAA so long to act. The school was punished, isn't that what was supposed to happen after all?

They are not the property of public schools, but they are not supposed to be influenced to attend another school based on their perceived athletic ability. On your other point, it seemed the evidence was very clear cut when they finally made their ruling.

Will Propsal 2 be changed to require students to change systems in 4th grade, when the complaints continue? I still don't see this curtailing illegal recruiting. It's just going to happen at earlier stages. It's probably already happening now. Instead of persuading students to enter the system by 7th grade they just have to catch them earlier. There are AAU players across the country in 3rd, 4th, 5th grade that are ranked. It's going to happen.

When exactly do students become the property of public schools?

 

State law of some point makes it the responsibility of the school to educate every child within their boundaries. NO MATTER what type of student that kid is. NO MATTER the support they have at home. NO MATTER the physical or mental deficiencies or gifts that they may have. NO MATTER how much trouble with the law the kid is in. (one of my school's administrators recently administer the CATS test to a student that was incarcerated so that we did not have to take a ZERO on the test. Once a kid has hit, I believe it is 100 days in your school, their MUST be a test score for that student or you get a zero.) EVERY SINGLE KID's education within their boundaries is the responsibility of that school unless the parent chooses to homeschool or private school the child.

 

And if the parent is not educating their child or enrolling them in a school, it will become the responsibility of the public school to make sure that it does happen.

 

The public schools do not have the luxury to pick and choose their kids and then promote how great of a school they are.

Will Propsal 2 be changed to require students to change systems in 4th grade, when the complaints continue? I still don't see this curtailing illegal recruiting. It's just going to happen at earlier stages. It's probably already happening now. Instead of persuading students to enter the system by 7th grade they just have to catch them earlier. There are AAU players across the country in 3rd, 4th, 5th grade that are ranked. It's going to happen.

I agree. Prop 2 does nothing but move the problems that has been going on with 9th graders to the summer between 7th/8th grade.

State law of some point makes it the responsibility of the school to educate every child within their boundaries. NO MATTER what type of student that kid is. NO MATTER the support they have at home. NO MATTER the physical or mental deficiencies or gifts that they may have. NO MATTER how much trouble with the law the kid is in. (one of my school's administrators recently administer the CATS test to a student that was incarcerated so that we did not have to take a ZERO on the test. Once a kid has hit, I believe it is 100 days in your school, their MUST be a test score for that student or you get a zero.) EVERY SINGLE KID's education within their boundaries is the responsibility of that school unless the parent chooses to homeschool or private school the child.

 

And if the parent is not educating their child or enrolling them in a school, it will become the responsibility of the public school to make sure that it does happen.

 

The public schools do not have the luxury to pick and choose their kids and then promote how great of a school they are.

 

This is false. Public schools do and have rejected students for one reason or another and have redirected them. And, probably to your disbelief this happens in rural as well as urban schools. Be careful with your "NO MATTER" statements because it does matter and public schools have used this option on many ocations

I don't think they will deal with it very well at all. I was not involved in the process so I can not speak for the group that pushed this. I speak out only because the program I support has had its fair share of problems with parochial schools encouraging athletes in our feeder schools to attend. We did turn in a school and they were punished, BUT it took nearly three years of constant nagging on our part to get the KHSAA to act. That is why I say the KHSAA is inept in pursuing these type of actions. If a verifiable act of recruiting happens and is reported, there is no way it should take 3 years for the KHSAA to investigate and produce findings.

 

 

I don't know of the situation you are referring to in your above post. Keep in mind that it does take a lot of work to investigate these things fully and thoroughly. A lot of the time, the allegation is made to the KHSAA from someone who heard it second or third hand and many, many people need to be talked to before the KHSAA gets close to the truth. I can tell you that most of the investigations do not take close to 3 years from when the allegations were reported to the KHSAA. The last thing the KHSAA wants, needs or should do is to half heartedly investigate these allegations for the same of expediency. If they do so and dismiss the allegations, then the accusers attack the KHSAA for not doing a thorough investigation. If they uphold the allegation and impose sanctions, they then get sued by the sanctioned schools and have to answer to the courts for doing a half hearted investigation. As a result the KHSAA is cautious and rightly so. Plus, whether you want to believe it or not, the KHSAA is understaffed which may have been also a part of the reason for the protracted investigation in your example. Even if, for argument purposes, the KHSAA mishandled that situation, that does not mean that such will always be the case. If the KHSAA had more investigative resourses (an idea proposed by the privates, but shot down by the publics) they could do a better job looking into these matters.

This is false. Public schools do and have rejected students for one reason or another and have redirected them. And, probably to your disbelief this happens in rural as well as urban schools. Be careful with your "NO MATTER" statements because it does matter and public schools have used this option on many ocations

If it involves violence to the school and danger to the school, you are correct but that even is to an extent.

 

If a student is permanently expelled, the public school may still have to provide that student with an education. Possibly in the form of paying for them to attend a virtual high school through the Internet or for a teacher to visit them and teach them on a homebound basis.

 

Students that have a severe mentally disability and the rural public school is not able to teach will see the public school have to pay for that child's transporation and placement into a facility that can handle the child.

 

I have been involved in meetings where a student has attacked a teacher and been back in that school after a set suspension is up and back in the teacher's classroom after their suspension is up because they HAVE TO TAKE THEM BACK.

 

I know of students threaten teachers and have to be restrained and taken out in handcuffs eventually being expelled from school and that district having to pay for a virtual high school as they are still charged with educating that child.

 

I have seen schools not want a child only to be court ordered for that child to attend their district.

 

If a student is NOT a resource student and is over 18, then a school can reject them and not provide any educational resources.

 

I stand by my statement based on my experiences in 18 years of teaching.

If it involves violence to the school and danger to the school, you are correct but that even is to an extent.

 

If a student is permanently expelled, the public school may still have to provide that student with an education. Possibly in the form of paying for them to attend a virtual high school through the Internet or for a teacher to visit them and teach them on a homebound basis.

 

Students that have a severe mentally disability and the rural public school is not able to teach will see the public school have to pay for that child's transporation and placement into a facility that can handle the child.

 

I have been involved in meetings where a student has attacked a teacher and been back in that school after a set suspension is up and back in the teacher's classroom after their suspension is up because they HAVE TO TAKE THEM BACK.

 

I know of students threaten teachers and have to be restrained and taken out in handcuffs eventually being expelled from school and that district having to pay for a virtual high school as they are still charged with educating that child.

 

I have seen schools not want a child only to be court ordered for that child to attend their district.

 

If a student is NOT a resource student and is over 18, then a school can reject them and not provide any educational resources.

 

I stand by my statement based on my experiences in 18 years of teaching.

 

 

LBBC, I agree wih you that public schools do have problems with "wayward" students and that the private schools don't have to deal with that problem. They simply throw them out. Advantage privates. But I think you have to agree that the need for private funding at the private schools (i.e. tuition) is a big problem the publics don't have to deal with. Advantage publics.

 

At the end of the day, I still believe that a large majority of the public schools don't do a good enough job selling the virtues of their schools to their communities. Whereas a large majority of the private schools do a great job selling their virtues because they have to do so to survive. As a result, when parents are comparing options and deciding where to go, they have much more good propaganda from the privates Do you agree?

I'm also curious to know if you feel that most public schools are doing everything they can to maximize support from their communities and alumni and to "include" them in the operation of the school district, so as to create that "ownership" mentality so vital to a successful school district? The privates do a great, and I mean great, job of that and from what I observe most publics do not. Sure there is a booster club and maybe even an alumni association, but they aren't done anywhere near the extent that they are done at the privates. Highlands does a decent job, but candidly we are way behind the likes of Elder, Trinity and X in my opinion.