What's the Call?

[cshs81]

Runner on 1st. 2 outs. Batter has a count of 3 and 1. On the pitch, the runner on first is stealing and slides into second ahead of the throw but overslides the bag where he is tagged while off the base. Back at home plate, the pitch was called a ball but the batter attempted to check his swing. The catcher asks the home plate umpire to ask for help to see if the batter actually checked his swing.

 

What do you have if a)the pitch is ruled a ball and b)if the pitch is ruled a strike?

[Mr. No Name]

Runner on 1st. 2 outs. Batter has a count of 3 and 1. On the pitch, the runner on first is stealing and slides into second ahead of the throw but overslides the bag where he is tagged while off the base. Back at home plate, the pitch was called a ball but the batter attempted to check his swing. The catcher asks the home plate umpire to ask for help to see if the batter actually checked his swing.

 

What do you have if a)the pitch is ruled a ball and b)if the pitch is ruled a strike?

 

Ball the runner would be safe and strike he would be out.

 

But, I really have no clue.

[STRIKE3]

Ball 4, would mean runner is entitled to 2nd Base, hitter advances to 1st.

 

If the Umpire at 1st, ruled "batter made an attempt", than runner advancing to 2nd is out, only if Umpire indicated by call, that runner was out. If no physical gesture was made, then runner "over sliding" base, could not be called out.

 

I think....excellent question, my friend.

[Diamond Dandy]

ball- runner safe at second.

 

strike on appeal- batter strikes out

[STRIKE3]

ball- runner safe at second.

 

strike on appeal- batter strikes out

Wouldn't a strike on appeal, if granted, make a 3-2 count?

[jr92]

Ball 4, would mean runner is entitled to 2nd Base, hitter advances to 1st.

 

If the Umpire at 1st, ruled "batter made an attempt", than runner advancing to 2nd is out, only if Umpire indicated by call, that runner was out. If no physical gesture was made, then runner "over sliding" base, could not be called out.

 

I think....excellent question, my friend.

 

Runner out, regardless of whether the pitch was a ball or strike. If the pitch was ball four, the runner at first would be allowed second base, but when he overslid the base, he is fair game and subject to being tagged out by the defense. The ball is not dead on a walk.

 

Something interesting would be if the runner was running and MISSED the base on ball four! Of course, in that case the runner would be given second base on the base on balls, but it would be a strange play.

[STRIKE3]

Runner out, regardless of whether the pitch was a ball or strike. If the pitch was ball four, the runner at first would be allowed second base, but when he over-slid the base, he is fair game and subject to being tagged out by the defense. The ball is not dead on a walk.

 

Something interesting would be if the runner was running and MISSED the base on ball four! Of course, in that case the runner would be given second base on the base on balls, but it would be a strange play.

In theory yes, but if no call was forthcoming by the Umpire, he can't change to an "out". An actual call of safe or out, would have to be made and then a rules meeting, to get input would be needed.

 

This is a correctable rule but in my opinion, the Umpire would have to call out, if he over-slid 2nd, in order to call out on a called check swing attempt.

 

I hope, I never have to argue this one....

[Diamond Dandy]

Wouldn't a strike on appeal, if granted, make a 3-2 count?

 

yep.....sorry, read it too fast.

[jr92]

In theory yes, but if no call was forthcoming by the Umpire, he can't change to an "out". An actual call of safe or out, would have to be made and then a rules meeting, to get input would be needed.

 

This is a correctable rule but in my opinion, the Umpire would have to call out, if he over-slid 2nd, in order to call out on a called check swing attempt.

 

I hope, I never have to argue this one....

 

Of course, if the check swing was ruled a third strike, (and third out) it would be a moot point other than determining who would lead off the next inning for that team (and scoring puposes).

 

I should amend my post by saying the runner would out regardless of whether the pitch was a ball or strike IF THERE WERE LESS THAN TWO OUTS.

[cshs81]

Runner out, regardless of whether the pitch was a ball or strike. If the pitch was ball four, the runner at first would be allowed second base, but when he overslid the base, he is fair game and subject to being tagged out by the defense. The ball is not dead on a walk.

 

.

 

Nice job, JR92. This is correct. When a runner is forced, he is entitled to that base but should he proceed past the base after acquiring it, he does so at his own peril.

 

With that said, is the appeal even necessary?

[bgpreppy]

Nice job, JR92. This is correct. When a runner is forced, he is entitled to that base but should he proceed past the base after acquiring it, he does so at his own peril.

 

With that said, is the appeal even necessary?

 

It isn't necessary, but some catchers may ask for it just for clarity. Also, you are going to need an answer just to prepare for the inevitable "conversation" with the offensive coach when you tell him the runner is out either way.

 

But a little respectful conversation explaining to the coach that the runner did not overrun the base because he thought it was ball four (even if he had, his is still out). This is a case where you have to give a coach an opportunity to try to plead his case, but he really has none. Conversation would be short, sweet, and game goes on.

[cshs81]

It isn't necessary,

 

How sure are you of the above?

[TigerFan2709]

Nice job, JR92. This is correct. When a runner is forced, he is entitled to that base but should he proceed past the base after acquiring it, he does so at his own peril.

 

With that said, is the appeal even necessary?

 

Could you put where in the casebook that is?

[bgpreppy]

How sure are you of the above?

 

The reason it isn't necessary, is because if they just accept the fact that it was a ball, then the batter is walked. The runner is protected until he gets to second. Since he got to second ... and beyond with the overslide, he is out when tagged on the overslide.

 

If he does decide to appeal, and it is called a strike, the runner is still out because he got tagged out while trying to steal.

 

So either way, the runner is out. On a walk, he is only protected until he gets to the bag.

 

The Prepster....

[STRIKE3]

The reason it isn't necessary, is because if they just accept the fact that it was a ball, then the batter is walked. The runner is protected until he gets to second. Since he got to second ... and beyond with the over slide, he is out when tagged on the over slide.

 

If he does decide to appeal, and it is called a strike, the runner is still out because he got tagged out while trying to steal.

 

So either way, the runner is out. On a walk, he is only protected until he gets to the bag.

 

The Prepster....

That was my position, in post #2, if the Umpire actually made a call of safe/out, after the over slide.

 

If not call of out was made, then would the Umpire physically change his call to out, if on appeal the batter was ruled to have "attempted" and been strike 2....thoughts?

 

I would argue this, if happened and hope I never have to....