I'm no UK fan, but among my friends I count many UK fans. I watch games with them, and we have great discussions about UK. I've finally convinced a few of them that it's not so much a "decline" of the UK program as it is everyone else has upped their game.

 

In UK's case, the only place to go was down because of how dominant they've been historically, but I don't see that as equal to a decline in the program. It just means UK has to work harder than before at recruiting, because of the nature of college hoops, where anybody can get on TV.

 

Back when UK was piling up wins over their football-crazy conferencemates, UK was on TV all the time, and the rest of them weren't. This is the same affliction that Indiana has struggled with.

 

Now, however, UK has to share recruits. In the past, the name — and the fact that they were the only SEC school on TV all the time — recruited itself.They have to work harder now, and fans haven't adjusted to this reality.

 

Does this mean UK has back-slid as a program? Hardly.

 

I have a lot of respect for Tubby, and have always bristled over criticism of him. Much of that comes from nasty things I've heard said about him from a race standpoint. However, he dropped the ball in the biggest way by not sacking Rigot and Hanson after promising "major changes" before this season. Those guys are a joke and can't recruit, and it makes Tubby — who isn't terribly good at recruiting in his own right — look bad. He needs an ace recruiter on his staff, and now.

 

If Tubby doesn't, even I'll have a hard time defending him.

:thumb: Nice post here Jim, you stated your concerns, made your point in a classy way. I can respect that in the way you have stated it. It is no seceret that I have been a Tubby supporter on here and have got on those who trash him. I am not or don't want to accuse anyone inpaticualr of the "racial" thing you mentioned but I will say I have wondered the same thing. Rigot and Hansen as you said are Terrible recruiters imo. They should have been gone and they are still here. I said after last season and all the turmoil that if things didn't improve in a couple of years that I would have hard time defending him as well. This years freshmen class is a good one and if another can be brought in for next year I would see that facet of it improving. Tubby is a great b.b coach, he has proven that. I want to see U.K. win and win big as much as anyone. I will say that depending on the outcome of this season and next that it may be time. Possibly before, I don't know. Having said al of this I will say that I will continue to support OTS, he is our coach and he is a very good one. Recruiting had fallen off with the exception of this years class. I will stay in Tubby's corner as long as he is at U.K., imo that is what a fan is supposed to do. When and if then time comes for someone new I will support them as well. :thumb:

Bama has been mediocre in every sense of the word. Sometimes worse. And they looked bad today as well...

 

I do not consider any of the teams in the top 25 mediocre. In fact I would consider the top 40 above average(after that is when you run into the mediocre teams from 41 to 120, the final 121 through 200 are below average).

You UK fans that say he should go...ought to change your tune...the program would take an immediate hit if he left...and then how happy would be>?

:thumb: Kind of like the old saying: "be careful for what you ask for".:sssh:

Keep him for another year, he doesn't perform, then you have to look at other options. I still think next year this team is going to be a national championship contender, with one of the nation's best backcourts. Give him one more year, then bash all you want...

 

 

Heard that for a few years now. KY could be VERY good next year, but it's going to take Patterson coming and being effective, and it's going to take Morris not going anywhere. IMO Morris is gone, and why would Patterson go to KY when he could go somewhere else, have fun, win, and get to run and dunk.

You UK fans that say he should go...ought to change your tune...the program would take an immediate hit if he left...and then how happy would be>?

 

 

Why would it take a hit? If you hire the right coach KY might be down for 2-4 years, but after Morris leaves we're going to be down for 2 years anyway.

I hope he stays there forever!

 

Go Cards!

Then that would mean that U.K. would still be beating the Cards :ylsuper: . What isa it now....4-2 Tubby over Pitino at U.L.??

Keep him for another year, he doesn't perform, then you have to look at other options. I still think next year this team is going to be a national championship contender, with one of the nation's best backcourts. Give him one more year, then bash all you want...

:thumb: I can agree with this.

I'm no UK fan, but among my friends I count many UK fans. I watch games with them, and we have great discussions about UK. I've finally convinced a few of them that it's not so much a "decline" of the UK program as it is everyone else has upped their game.

 

In UK's case, the only place to go was down because of how dominant they've been historically, but I don't see that as equal to a decline in the program. It just means UK has to work harder than before at recruiting, because of the nature of college hoops, where anybody can get on TV.

 

Back when UK was piling up wins over their football-crazy conferencemates, UK was on TV all the time, and the rest of them weren't. This is the same affliction that Indiana has struggled with.

 

Now, however, UK has to share recruits. In the past, the name — and the fact that they were the only SEC school on TV all the time — recruited itself.They have to work harder now, and fans haven't adjusted to this reality.

 

Does this mean UK has back-slid as a program? Hardly.

 

I have a lot of respect for Tubby, and have always bristled over criticism of him. Much of that comes from nasty things I've heard said about him from a race standpoint. However, he dropped the ball in the biggest way by not sacking Rigot and Hanson after promising "major changes" before this season. Those guys are a joke and can't recruit, and it makes Tubby — who isn't terribly good at recruiting in his own right — look bad. He needs an ace recruiter on his staff, and now.

 

If Tubby doesn't, even I'll have a hard time defending him. For Chrissakes, I even have a hard time rooting against the 'Cats anymore. It's like beating up on a crippled kid. I should be reveling in UK fans' misery …

 

 

What would you call it when you start setting records for losses? The "recruiters" arguement was thrown out the door because it should have been fixed by the head coach. If he looks for blame somewhere else it's a cop out because he's the one who's in charge. KY has 2 classes where they didn't "share" recruits. We went to NC to recruit the average to bad PF Bobby Perry even though no scholly's were offered to him in NC(NC State, Duke, UNC). I know that people point to the "Lofton" issue, but had EKU or WKU came calling C-Lo knew he was WAY too good for that. So then Tubby recruited Rondo, Bradley, and Crawford and told the world it was time to run. Then he handcuffed Rajon's hand to his foot and told him to run the point. When Bradley and Crawford initiated offense (late in the game yesterday) good things started to happen. We started making a few shots because when you move and play hard then defenses get out of position and offense is easier. Standing around throwing passes (not swinging the ball just lazy passes) is terrible offense. It isn't an offense. I have ran better offenses in pick up games. Tubby is out of touch with the kids. It's time to go.

When making a decision of this magnatude we always hear that the reason was the direction of the program needed changed. If that is the case then lets debate the direction of the program. I for one believe in the not so distant past KY was an elite program and was on most recruits wish list now I think UK is a second or third tier team and image. They clearly are not considered elite. It is time to go a new direction. But I would start with the AD. Barnhart is responsable for the demise. He has never been involved in a elite program in his past and don't understand the atmosphere and yes arrogance it takes to bring this way of thinking to reality. I do believe Tubby is a good man and a very good SECOND tier coach but not an elite coach. KY deserves to be coached and administered by the best in the business. They are a few out there that would be a good fit. Billy D( no idea if he would even be interested) Mark Pew from Gonzaga has stated he would leave only for a few openings Ky would be one. There are others out there that could lead the Cats back to the eilte position they deserve. A new AD should come from home. With an understanding of our storied past and a drive to achieve higher goals in the future. I love Tubby as a person and I do know him personally. But it is time to bring in a new coach.

I've finally convinced a few of them that it's not so much a "decline" of the UK program as it is everyone else has upped their game.

 

That argument works after losing to Vandy and Florida. It doesn't cut it after losing to UGA and Bama.

 

UK is down on talent, and they're not even playing up to the talent they do have.

 

Add to that the fact that for 3 years Tubby could offer immediate playing time for a strong 4 guy and hasn't been able to fill the spot.

 

His time is getting short. My heart says axe him this season, my head says he gets 1 more year to get back to the top of the conference.

I'm no UK fan, but among my friends I count many UK fans. I watch games with them, and we have great discussions about UK. I've finally convinced a few of them that it's not so much a "decline" of the UK program as it is everyone else has upped their game.

 

In UK's case, the only place to go was down because of how dominant they've been historically, but I don't see that as equal to a decline in the program. It just means UK has to work harder than before at recruiting, because of the nature of college hoops, where anybody can get on TV.

 

Back when UK was piling up wins over their football-crazy conferencemates, UK was on TV all the time, and the rest of them weren't. This is the same affliction that Indiana has struggled with.

 

Now, however, UK has to share recruits. In the past, the name — and the fact that they were the only SEC school on TV all the time — recruited itself.They have to work harder now, and fans haven't adjusted to this reality.

 

Does this mean UK has back-slid as a program? Hardly.

 

I have a lot of respect for Tubby, and have always bristled over criticism of him. Much of that comes from nasty things I've heard said about him from a race standpoint. However, he dropped the ball in the biggest way by not sacking Rigot and Hanson after promising "major changes" before this season. Those guys are a joke and can't recruit, and it makes Tubby — who isn't terribly good at recruiting in his own right — look bad. He needs an ace recruiter on his staff, and now.

 

If Tubby doesn't, even I'll have a hard time defending him. For Chrissakes, I even have a hard time rooting against the 'Cats anymore. It's like beating up on a crippled kid. I should be reveling in UK fans' misery …

I disagree with the statement that Much of that comes from ...race standpoint. No doubt there is people out there that resort to race but I think race has nothing to do with the percieved downfall of the program. If Tubby is let go there will be many resorting to the race card then to. So I think the race issue is really mute. If he is kept because UK fears the response of firing a minority or If he is fired strictly because of his race, it would be wrong either way. Lets just judge on the direction of the program.

You UK fans that say he should go...ought to change your tune...the program would take an immediate hit if he left...and then how happy would be>?

Very good point RP. The Kentucky basketball program would suffer because of it. Not only that but the money from supporters would be more likely lower for a while too. Look at Cincy ask them about the money issue after Huggins was gone. When Tubby came he brought some big money backers too. That alone will put a hurting on the program when boosters pull some funding.

Very good point RP. The Kentucky basketball program would suffer because of it. Not only that but the money from supporters would be more likely lower for a while too. Look at Cincy ask them about the money issue after Huggins was gone. When Tubby came he brought some big money backers too. That alone will put a hurting on the program when boosters pull some funding.

 

 

A lot of people want him gone. The supporters have and always will be at KY Tubby or no Tubby. Do you agree with that? Do you agree that supporters who want him gone will give more if he leaves? Do the supporters enjoy average recruiting classes and 10 loss seasons?

I disagree with the statement that Much of that comes from ...race standpoint. No doubt there is people out there that resort to race but I think race has nothing to do with the percieved downfall of the program. If Tubby is let go there will be many resorting to the race card then to. So I think the race issue is really mute. If he is kept because UK fears the response of firing a minority or If he is fired strictly because of his race, it would be wrong either way. Lets just judge on the direction of the program.

 

 

I agree. Why would race be an issue in his removal?

That argument works after losing to Vandy and Florida. It doesn't cut it after losing to UGA and Bama.

 

UK is down on talent, and they're not even playing up to the talent they do have.

 

Add to that the fact that for 3 years Tubby could offer immediate playing time for a strong 4 guy and hasn't been able to fill the spot.

 

His time is getting short. My heart says axe him this season, my head says he gets 1 more year to get back to the top of the conference.

 

 

He's filled it with average mid-major talent and worse.