I agree with rest and recovery and all the science about over-use and over training. 

But football is hard.  It's extremely taxing on the body and mind.  You have to be able to get thru that.  Mueller had his teams working extremely hard, they were always way better conditioned than anyone they played.  You don't get that way by cruising thru stuff.  And his players were absolute units of men.  Again, he definitely was unorthodox in many ways in his training; however, nobody wins games by not having taxing workouts.  

A team full of kids who can SQUAT a lot = Meh, may be a good team, may not be;

A team full of kids who can BENCH a lot = Meh, may be a good team, may not be;

A team full of kids who can POWER CLEAN a lot = You have a good team on your hands. 

That goes along the lines of chasing numbers. Bar speed is more important and absolute strength. That’s one reason colleges now have the racks that are measuring bar speed. They are measuring force output. The power clean requires a large amount of force. The problems schools run into with the power clean is teaching correctly and moderating the weight room while players are doing it. HS kids do dumb stuff with squat and bench so you can imagine the dumb stuff they can do with a power clean. That doesn’t even get into special awareness and spotting. 
 

For all the schools that can teach it correctly and keep an eye on 40+ kids here is huge tip of the hat. 

 

 

41 minutes ago, barrel said:

That goes along the lines of chasing numbers. Bar speed is more important and absolute strength. That’s one reason colleges now have the racks that are measuring bar speed. They are measuring force output. The power clean requires a large amount of force. The problems schools run into with the power clean is teaching correctly and moderating the weight room while players are doing it. HS kids do dumb stuff with squat and bench so you can imagine the dumb stuff they can do with a power clean. That doesn’t even get into special awareness and spotting. 
 

For all the schools that can teach it correctly and keep an eye on 40+ kids here is huge tip of the hat. 

 

 

When we had 60 kids in weight class at Mason, we went to a modified hang clean. Much safer & easier to monitor. And, got the explosion we wanted. 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/38145370_Explosive_exercises_in_sports_training_A_critical_review

Ok I’ll admit I didn’t read all 30 pages and here are a few take aways. 
 

The paper in part focuses on the cadence of the movement. Basically the speed at which the athlete is moving concentric and eccentric. What most people refer to as bar speed they have a controlled concentric with an explosive eccentric. In basic terms the idea is when the weight is using gravity the lifter works slower (often the downward portion) and exploits to push the weight away. I know gravity works both ways but that was the best way to describe it. Anyone who has watched or trained HS athletes has witnessed them not control the concentric portion (most commonly in bench and deadlift). 
 

This is one reason programs will use bands and bands are great for beginners. Band resistance works differently than free weight resistance throughout the movement when done correctly. This is part of the stance of the paper is not controlling the weight through the range of motion. 
 

The paper talks about Olympic lifts which many programs do not use at all. Hex bar deadlifts are a good alternative to cleans and normal deadlifts. You are working on the same hip extension/explosiveness in a safer form. 
 

The paper often doesn’t reference what level the athletes are. One except was the rugby players. We are talking about HS athletes. Many when first entering HS (even upperclassmen) don’t understand how to even move. Take a group out and teach them sprint mechanics and you’ll see what I mean. 
 

The paper pulls random information from different programs. In many cases it’s over relatively short (6 weeks) periods of time. That’s around one cycle and a deload. 
 

HS S&C isn’t hard. Have a program that works in cycles. Have consistency in attendance and methods. Teach sprint mechanics and run fast two days a week. Have a flexibility aspect/prehab aspect. Have a change of direction portion. Use some plyometrics such as depth jumps and jumps in general (this can be the hardest part to program). The paper is against plyo work but HS kids have to learn how to create and absorb force through the ground. 
 

The last part is don’t do or allow dumb stuff. Starting Strength, Jim Wendler, Bigger Faster Stronger and a number of other systems honestly follow a lot of the same principles. Remember these are HS kids so as long as you don’t do dumb stuff and you get consistent attendance you’ll get good results. 

I love this discussion although I’m not a “football” guy. Just a fan.

Something I find very interesting is the discussion started out about staic vs flying starts and went all manner of directions with a lot of good discussion.

Now I have a question for the folks already involved in the discussion.

It has been said that weightlifting is a key to strength and gaining weight. But I’ve also read different articles that say weight training is a key to weight LOSS.

How does that work that it is for both? How does the body know?

I know other factors are involved with both and maybe that is the answer

2 hours ago, Falcon Pride said:

I love this discussion although I’m not a “football” guy. Just a fan.

Something I find very interesting is the discussion started out about staic vs flying starts and went all manner of directions with a lot of good discussion.

Now I have a question for the folks already involved in the discussion.

It has been said that weightlifting is a key to strength and gaining weight. But I’ve also read different articles that say weight training is a key to weight LOSS.

How does that work that it is for both? How does the body know?

I know other factors are involved with both and maybe that is the answer

Muscle burns more calories at rest than fat, even if you aren’t doing a lot of activity.  It’s “metabolically expensive” so to speak.  And, high intensity training uses a lot of the stored glycogen in the muscles which helps with insulin resistance.  Additionally, it triggers the release of various hormones such as testosterone and human growth hormone (HGH) which are very important.  Look up Dr Jason Fung and Dr Doug McGuff for some good information.

Thanks

 While my opinion doesn't mean much, I can talk from personal experience about the best things a high school athlete needs. One of the most important things is explosive movement from a variety of positions, like cleans, deadlifts, plyos, and sprinting. The speed of these movements is what sets athletes apart on the field. Someone who can typically clean and deadlift with speed tends to have good in-game movement. Learning how to run is a skill these days, and it's pretty scary if you think about the bigger picture—kids just don't know how to move their bodies efficiently anymore. Teaching a athlete how to efficiently run and get rid of wasted movement is a lost art among coaches. 
The next hack that I always talk about is kids need to eat! And not just whats offered to them at school, athletes need almost double of what is offered, I always tell our guys to find a friend who doesn't eat their lunch and ask them to grab their plate so they can have a double portion. Its silly that it needs to be like this, but our kids just weren't eating enough. Boosters/Parents/Supporters also providing snacks for athletes can help with those energy stores before a practice/weights. A fridge/shelf full of snacks can allow a kid to quickly grab something to eat and have SOMETHING on their stomach for practice. 
The next hack that I'm currently struggling with here in West Virginia is sleep, our kids have to be in class at 7:37am, busses arrive at 7:05. So our kids are getting up at 5-5:30 in the morning to catch the bus and get to school. So if a student goes to bed at 10 they are getting at best 7 hours of sleep, where teenagers need 8-10 a night to see proper recovery and growth. 

@New Colonel Mentions that athletes need to be spent leaving the weight room, I agree and disagree at the same time. I think Offseason wise a good grind session is good for guys due to them needing to be challenged. But in the same breath I will say it needs to be something left in the tank so that recovery and growth isn't hindered. It is a delicate balance that we have to monitor, because if someone isn't recovering they aren't growing. The crucial point being is that our nervous systems are so in tuned to our performance wrecking that on Monday will most likely cause a loss of growth on Wednesday. Again no right or wrong here, just my own perspective. 

There is a ton of information you have all gathered and in my opinion that can create a great improvement to our sport, I do believe that in the last 20 years or so, the development of Kentucky Athletes has come leaps and bounds! That all comes from better coaching and a willingness to step outside our comfort zones. 

6 hours ago, DanGiga said:

 While my opinion doesn't mean much, I can talk from personal experience about the best things a high school athlete needs. One of the most important things is explosive movement from a variety of positions, like cleans, deadlifts, plyos, and sprinting. The speed of these movements is what sets athletes apart on the field. Someone who can typically clean and deadlift with speed tends to have good in-game movement. Learning how to run is a skill these days, and it's pretty scary if you think about the bigger picture—kids just don't know how to move their bodies efficiently anymore. Teaching a athlete how to efficiently run and get rid of wasted movement is a lost art among coaches. 
The next hack that I always talk about is kids need to eat! And not just whats offered to them at school, athletes need almost double of what is offered, I always tell our guys to find a friend who doesn't eat their lunch and ask them to grab their plate so they can have a double portion. Its silly that it needs to be like this, but our kids just weren't eating enough. Boosters/Parents/Supporters also providing snacks for athletes can help with those energy stores before a practice/weights. A fridge/shelf full of snacks can allow a kid to quickly grab something to eat and have SOMETHING on their stomach for practice. 
The next hack that I'm currently struggling with here in West Virginia is sleep, our kids have to be in class at 7:37am, busses arrive at 7:05. So our kids are getting up at 5-5:30 in the morning to catch the bus and get to school. So if a student goes to bed at 10 they are getting at best 7 hours of sleep, where teenagers need 8-10 a night to see proper recovery and growth. 

@New Colonel Mentions that athletes need to be spent leaving the weight room, I agree and disagree at the same time. I think Offseason wise a good grind session is good for guys due to them needing to be challenged. But in the same breath I will say it needs to be something left in the tank so that recovery and growth isn't hindered. It is a delicate balance that we have to monitor, because if someone isn't recovering they aren't growing. The crucial point being is that our nervous systems are so in tuned to our performance wrecking that on Monday will most likely cause a loss of growth on Wednesday. Again no right or wrong here, just my own perspective. 

There is a ton of information you have all gathered and in my opinion that can create a great improvement to our sport, I do believe that in the last 20 years or so, the development of Kentucky Athletes has come leaps and bounds! That all comes from better coaching and a willingness to step outside our comfort zones. 

Great stuff.  I think the biggest takeaway here is there isn't 1 single best way of doing it, if there was, everyone would have the same training program.