Realistically, serious injuries don't happen on kickoffs as often as some people want to believe.

 

Injuries may not occur at that rate some think. But NFL stats do show that you are 5x more likely to suffer a concussion on a kickoff than a regular play. Even though almost half of the kickoffs result in a touchback. And that’s down from several years ago before some of the current rule changes AND concussions weren’t even diagnosed as often, before current protocols. At the very least, that’s significant, and worthy of discussion.

Injuries may not occur at that rate some think. But NFL stats do show that you are 5x more likely to suffer a concussion on a kickoff than a regular play. Even though almost half of the kickoffs result in a touchback. And that’s down from several years ago before some of the current rule changes AND concussions weren’t even diagnosed as often, before current protocols. At the very least, that’s significant, and worthy of discussion.

 

Taking it out of the game is more than a discussion, and an overreaction.

In high school, most concussions happen as the player strikes the ground, not from one player striking another player. Probably over 90% of concussion I have seen, at the high school level, have occurred as a player is knocked on his back and as his shoulders strike the ground his head hits the ground in a whipping motion.

 

The problem with all these precautions is, the powers that be are trying to apply NFL research to high school sports. And, quite frankly, the type of injuries and pathophysiology that apply to the NFL players are not the same as those applied to high school, or even college players. It's almost like two different sports.

As football coaches, parents, fans and just lovers of the game, we have to get out of this mindset that any change makes the game "soft" or that "we shouldn't even call it football anymore." Fact: when the kickoff was invented you did not have dudes that were 6'0 250 pounds looking like they were chiseled out of granite running 4.5 40's and trying to hit a moving object with a 50 yard head start. That is the very definition of a "train wreck." Granted you don't have those kind of kids on a frosh or jv team, but everyone on here knows you put your fastest and strongest kids on kickoff. You ain't puttin second or third teamers on kickoff unless you want one run back on you. Heck, you put the second teamers on "kick-off return" which makes the matter worse. So what to do? You either eliminate the play OR make the play safer. The NFL has opted for safer by creating more touchbacks. That's not plausible at the frosh/jv level so they have opted for the equivalent... start at the 35.

In high school, most concussions happen as the player strikes the ground, not from one player striking another player. Probably over 90% of concussion I have seen, at the high school level, have occurred as a player is knocked on his back and as his shoulders strike the ground his head hits the ground in a whipping motion.

 

The problem with all these precautions is, the powers that be are trying to apply NFL research to high school sports. And, quite frankly, the type of injuries and pathophysiology that apply to the NFL players are not the same as those applied to high school, or even college players. It's almost like two different sports.

 

I don't disagree that the HS game is vastly different from the college, and certainly the NFL game. And perhaps you stats are accurate....I have no way of knowing. But I'm not sure I agree with your 90% number, especially the part about players being knocked on their back. That is absolutely one way concussions occur. However, in my 30+ years around high school football as a player, coach and parent, I've seen many concussions (and had a few myself), yet few of them happened the way you describe. I haven't often seen players get knocked back violently, straight onto their backs. My personal experience is that concussion have mostly occurred as a result of a player making first contact with his head (whether blocking, tackling, or lowering the head while running). The ground causing a concussion, in my experience, mostly happens when a player is blindsided, or otherwise hit while not expecting it, or in a position where they can't defend themselves.

 

I've done a little digging, because honestly, I never thought about the point you just raised. I did find a study that found most concussions occur from head to head contact (roughly 70%). Next was head to body (ie head to knee). Head to surface contact only made up 6% of all reported concussions. I don't know anything about the source, and perhaps it's complete hogwash. But it does line up with what I've seen. And it makes sense to me that, on a kickoff, these head to head contact situations are magnified by the speed at which they occur because both players are often moving at full speed after covering a longer distance.

 

High School Football Concussions: Does It Matter Where They Get Hit? • Physicians News.

I don't disagree that the HS game is vastly different from the college, and certainly the NFL game. And perhaps you stats are accurate....I have no way of knowing. But I'm not sure I agree with your 90% number, especially the part about players being knocked on their back. That is absolutely one way concussions occur. However, in my 30+ years around high school football as a player, coach and parent, I've seen many concussions (and had a few myself), yet few of them happened the way you describe. I haven't often seen players get knocked back violently, straight onto their backs. My personal experience is that concussion have mostly occurred as a result of a player making first contact with his head (whether blocking, tackling, or lowering the head while running). The ground causing a concussion, in my experience, mostly happens when a player is blindsided, or otherwise hit while not expecting it, or in a position where they can't defend themselves.

 

I've done a little digging, because honestly, I never thought about the point you just raised. I did find a study that found most concussions occur from head to head contact (roughly 70%). Next was head to body (ie head to knee). Head to surface contact only made up 6% of all reported concussions. I don't know anything about the source, and perhaps it's complete hogwash. But it does line up with what I've seen. And it makes sense to me that, on a kickoff, these head to head contact situations are magnified by the speed at which they occur because both players are often moving at full speed after covering a longer distance.

 

High School Football Concussions: Does It Matter Where They Get Hit? • Physicians News.

 

This kinda brings up my point that we (we meaning us/so called studies/ the talking heads and such) are spewing numbers but it never has really been studied at the High School or below level on large scale. It needs to be studied with some good hard data. Considering some KY teams dont even have trainers on staff, I am not sure how we do that, unless it gets mandated.

 

 

I actually did some digging myself. KYMSFA has had its "Team Kentucky" since 2012. (this is a middle school national tournament all star team for grades 6th, 7th, 8th) and we have all our injury report records. I went back and looked in the binder last night and of the 6 concussions we have had since 2012, 5 of them were helmet to ground contact, and one was helmet to knee contact. I dont have data as to what type of play it was on, but I do remember one specifically that was on a punt play KY was punting and the kid was running down the sideline to make the tackle and the return player step out of bounds, the KY kid dove away from the player to not hit him and his head smacked the ground hard, it was right in front of us on the sideline.

 

 

Now super small sample size, I get that. But its what data I have. Granted, its middle school, but I think it should be studied at that level as well.

I'm speaking as a healthcare professional and as such I have had an opportunity to care for players injured during football games. The 90% I stated, was my personal experience, as there is not much research directly from high school football, it is mostly extrapolated from the NFL and less from College.

 

When I spoke of falling backward, I did not mean knocked violently on their back, many of the concussions are simple falls backwards after contact, but the whipping motion of the head creates a greater amount of force when the head strikes the ground versus the body striking the ground.

 

Yes, some concussions in high school come from head-to-head and head-to-body contact, but the force exerted in a high school impact is no where near the force from such a hit in the NFL.

 

Antidotal experience: Most of the concussions I have witnessed have been in hits no one noticed more so then the "Ooooh and Awwww" type hits.

I'm speaking as a healthcare professional and as such I have had an opportunity to care for players injured during football games. The 90% I stated, was my personal experience, as there is not much research directly from high school football, it is mostly extrapolated from the NFL and less from College.

 

When I spoke of falling backward, I did not mean knocked violently on their back, many of the concussions are simple falls backwards after contact, but the whipping motion of the head creates a greater amount of force when the head strikes the ground versus the body striking the ground.

 

Yes, some concussions in high school come from head-to-head and head-to-body contact, but the force exerted in a high school impact is no where near the force from such a hit in the NFL.

 

Antidotal experience: Most of the concussions I have witnessed have been in hits no one noticed more so then the "Ooooh and Awwww" type hits.

 

Completely agree. When concussions occur in games, I go back and look at the film to see how it happened. Many times, I'm unable to see the cause. My son had one concussion in high school (which happened to be on a kickoff), and I never even realized he had suffered one until he was being looked at by the trainer....and I even watched him during the play. I think what this shows, is that it doesn't require great force or impact to cause a concussion, and therefore any helmet to helmet impact can cause a concussion...you don't need NFL type impacts for concussions to happen. Heck I had a kid who contacted the blocking sled with his helmet first and gave himself a concussion. Because helmet hits are common on kickoffs, AND because they occur at high than normal speeds (and greater impact), I think removing kickoffs is at least worth a conversation, at least at lower levels.

Completely agree. When concussions occur in games, I go back and look at the film to see how it happened. Many times, I'm unable to see the cause. My son had one concussion in high school (which happened to be on a kickoff), and I never even realized he had suffered one until he was being looked at by the trainer....and I even watched him during the play. I think what this shows, is that it doesn't require great force or impact to cause a concussion, and therefore any helmet to helmet impact can cause a concussion...you don't need NFL type impacts for concussions to happen. Heck I had a kid who contacted the blocking sled with his helmet first and gave himself a concussion. Because helmet hits are common on kickoffs, AND because they occur at high than normal speeds (and greater impact), I think removing kickoffs is at least worth a conversation, at least at lower levels.

 

Actually, you dont even need head contact to cause a concussion. The simple whiplash effect on its own can cause one. That also makes it hard to study.

This kinda brings up my point that we (we meaning us/so called studies/ the talking heads and such) are spewing numbers but it never has really been studied at the High School or below level on large scale. It needs to be studied with some good hard data. Considering some KY teams dont even have trainers on staff, I am not sure how we do that, unless it gets mandated.

 

 

I actually did some digging myself. KYMSFA has had its "Team Kentucky" since 2012. (this is a middle school national tournament all star team for grades 6th, 7th, 8th) and we have all our injury report records. I went back and looked in the binder last night and of the 6 concussions we have had since 2012, 5 of them were helmet to ground contact, and one was helmet to knee contact. I dont have data as to what type of play it was on, but I do remember one specifically that was on a punt play KY was punting and the kid was running down the sideline to make the tackle and the return player step out of bounds, the KY kid dove away from the player to not hit him and his head smacked the ground hard, it was right in front of us on the sideline.

 

 

Now super small sample size, I get that. But its what data I have. Granted, its middle school, but I think it should be studied at that level as well.

 

It's absolutely worth studying on a larger scale. Even the source I linked only drew results from about 2500 concussions....I don't remember enough about statistics to be able to say if that's a large enough sample to be relevant. But it is a start, and it does look directly at High School football. Between high school and middle school, I see maybe a handful of concussions every year (3-6 roughly), and almost all of them are helmet to helmet, or the head impacting another part of the body (at least in the instances where we can easily tell what caused it).

Too the topic:

 

I think removing kickoffs entirely penalizes a team with a good kicker. Lets look at this from a High School View point.

 

If the kicker can kick the ball into the endzone, team gets the ball at the 20. But if you get rid of kickoffs, team gets the ball at the 35. Not really a fair thing to penalize a team with a good kickoff kicker.

 

Perhaps a solution is a 3 phase kickoff option.

 

1. You can declare no kickoff, team gets ball on 35.

 

2. You can kick the ball (Deep) but its a dead ball when caught/touched by return team. If the ball cross goal line, ball at the 20, ball caught at the 11 ball on the 11, ball caught on the 43, ball on the 43.

 

3. You get one onside kick try per half, played under normal rules (in this cause I guess you would have to declare you are doing it, but most teams know when your doing it now anyways)

Eliminate the punt while we’re at it.

Eliminate the punt while we’re at it.

 

No. But what if we treated the kickoff like a punt. Meaning line all ten guys on the same line as the football is placed on the tee. Then each "kick-off return" member is required to line up over a kickoff team member similar to "cover 0" or man-to-man. This eliminates the "running start" the kick-off team gets and makes the play similar to most punt returns. If a kid immediately breaks free because he is just better and faster than the kick-off return team member then the returner can always signal for a "fair catch" just like he can with a punt return. My concern is the full speed car wreck style collisions on the kickoff play. If we can eliminate that I'm good with keeping it.

No. But what if we treated the kickoff like a punt. Meaning line all ten guys on the same line as the football is placed on the tee. Then each "kick-off return" member is required to line up over a kickoff team member similar to "cover 0" or man-to-man. This eliminates the "running start" the kick-off team gets and makes the play similar to most punt returns. If a kid immediately breaks free because he is just better and faster than the kick-off return team member then the returner can always signal for a "fair catch" just like he can with a punt return. My concern is the full speed car wreck style collisions on the kickoff play. If we can eliminate that I'm good with keeping it.

 

But how often do those types of plays happen in freshman/JV ball? Or varsity for that matter?

As an official, most lower level (freshman and jv games) I call the coaches don’t want or do kickoffs anyways. I’m going to say 75 percent of freshman and at least 50 percent of jv games don’t do kickoffs per coach agreements.

 

Drives start on the thirty, if you punt move ball thirty yards, unless that would put it inside the twenty where it then starts on the 20.

 

Coaches want kids at that level to get more kids game reps. They aren’t worried about kick offs and getting kids hurt on plays that aren’t making them better. Heck a lot of varsity teams struggle to find a kicker, let alone for jv and freshman.

 

Just a quick question, how many scrimmages this past weekend had live kickoffs? Of the three i attended not a single one, also from talking to buddies who called other ones they didn’t do live kickoffs either.

 

If it’s such an important play why are coaches not using it in scrimmages?.