October 4, 200619 yr Author Keep Dunn and trade others....get stating pitching. Did starting pitching make the Reds lose the last two games of the year?
October 4, 200619 yr Did starting pitching make the Reds lose the last two games of the year? Nope! The other 80! J/K:D
October 4, 200619 yr Did starting pitching make the Reds lose the last two games of the year?What's that got to do, with the price of tea in China.....they schedule 162 games and it's a season, not a series or 1-2 games. If every time, a MLB player had a great year, he would be overpaid the next....likewise, every time a MLB has less than typical career numbers, some fans yell for a trade. Part of the game, is overcoming and other getting better. If you like what Dunn brings, you know he'll never hit .320 in a season....If you don't like what he brings, you'll trade for someone and then miss his offensive production.
October 4, 200619 yr Author What's that got to do, with the price of tea in China.....they schedule 162 games and it's a season, not a series or 1-2 games. If every time, a MLB player had a great year, he would be overpaid the next....likewise, every time a MLB has less than typical career numbers, some fans yell for a trade. Part of the game, is overcoming and other getting better. If you like what Dunn brings, you know he'll never hit .320 in a season....If you don't like what he brings, you'll trade for someone and then miss his offensive production. Yes, they have to have pitching and it is the cornerstone, but I do think you have to have a balance and a decent offensive. You can't have great pitching and no offense. Last night in the Tigers/Yankees game, they put up a stat that the Yankees for the 20th time led the AL in runs per game. Out of the previous 19 times, they have 13 World Championship titles. That is a strong, strong argument for a good offense. The Reds lost the last two games, 3-0 and 1-0. Great pitching while sacrificing offense would lead to alot of losses like the Reds last two. I believe you keep Dunn AND add starting pitching. But if I can get a #1 starter for Dunn or a proven closer that I can count on for the next 4-5 seasons, I make the trade. BUT, I don't believe I get either of those for JUST him.
October 4, 200619 yr Yes, they have to have pitching and it is the cornerstone, but I do think you have to have a balance and a decent offensive. You can't have great pitching and no offense. Last night in the Tigers/Yankees game, they put up a stat that the Yankees for the 20th time led the AL in runs per game. Out of the previous 19 times, they have 13 World Championship titles. That is a strong, strong argument for a good offense. You have an excellent argument for offensive numbers but what it sounds like you're looking for, is a true "leadoff hitter" and 2hole batter. The Reds desperately need a solid, leadoff man who can get on via a hit or BB, then followed by a 2 man, who can move him or continue to advance the runners. Dunn drives in runs and provides HR's....not a hit for average type.
October 4, 200619 yr Author You have an excellent argument for offensive numbers but what it sounds like you're looking for, is a true "leadoff hitter" and 2hole batter. The Reds desperately need a solid, leadoff man who can get on via a hit or BB, then followed by a 2 man, who can move him or continue to advance the runners. Dunn drives in runs and provides HR's....not a hit for average type. I want a guy who hits in the clutch. The guy that you feel assured that when he is at the bat and you need a run driven in from second, it will be done. I really, really thought Dunn would make that step to that level this season and he did not. That has been my biggest disappointment this season. I think Hatteburg should be able to fill that #2 slot.
October 4, 200619 yr I want a guy who hits in the clutch. The guy that you feel assured that when he is at the bat and you need a run driven in from second, it will be done. I really, really thought Dunn would make that step to that level this season and he did not. That has been my biggest disappointment this season. I think Hatteburg should be able to fill that #2 slot. Hatteburg might be able to assume the role. I would hope in time, that Phillips could be a #2 man, if he could improve his hitting to all fields. Dunn's average is down and I attribute a lot of the decline, to who hits in front and behind. MLB pitchers, don't have to be so selective when pitching to him, if no protection is offered. I also believe he tired to provide extra offense, since some key players were out and that can have a negative effect, which leads to other problems. Dunn is a .260-270's type of hitter and I'll take 40 HR's and 100 RBI± from his slot in the lineup, which to me should be #5 or #6. He's having to hit in a different slot, as a result of lack of offensive power production from others.
October 4, 200619 yr Author Hatteburg might be able to assume the role. I would hope in time, that Phillips could be a #2 man, if he could improve his hitting to all fields. Dunn's average is down and I attribute a lot of the decline, to who hits in front and behind. MLB pitchers, don't have to be so selective when pitching to him, if no protection is offered. I also believe he tired to provide extra offense, since some key players were out and that can have a negative effect, which leads to other problems. Dunn is a .260-270's type of hitter and I'll take 40 HR's and 100 RBI± from his slot in the lineup, which to me should be #5 or #6. He's having to hit in a different slot, as a result of lack of offensive power production from others. I do not believe that the Reds would be able to afford the starting pitching you desire AND the offensive production you have inferred here.
October 4, 200619 yr I do not believe that the Reds would be able to afford the starting pitching you desire AND the offensive production you have inferred here.They've got $9 mil typed in ONE pitcher. I mentioned Michael Young, the SS for the Rangers and he would be an ideal leadoff or #2 man, with his $3.5 mil salary. They exist but not sure obtained. Move some lethargic starters, packaged with some middle relief corps and throw in a catcher....that could bring in 2-3 players alone.
October 4, 200619 yr Author They've got $9 mil typed in ONE pitcher. I mentioned Michael Young, the SS for the Rangers and he would be an ideal leadoff or #2 man, with his $3.5 mil salary. They exist but not sure obtained. Move some lethargic starters, packaged with some middle relief corps and throw in a catcher....that could bring in 2-3 players alone. I heard one of the 1530 or 700 radio guys talking about how much money they have locked up in a handful of guys. Jr, Milton, LaRue, Dunn and add in any increase that Harang gets and you are talking about somewhere around 32-40 mil I believe the figure was. Doesn't leave much for the other 19 positions. I believe the BIGGEST problem that WK will face is that the other MLB teams don't WANT some of our players at any cost and other players at the cost we would have to have in return. LaRue screams to mind as a player in the former category with Jr. in the latter.
October 4, 200619 yr I heard one of the 1530 or 700 radio guys talking about how much money they have locked up in a handful of guys. Jr, Milton, LaRue, Dunn and add in any increase that Harang gets and you are talking about somewhere around 32-40 mil I believe the figure was. Doesn't leave much for the other 19 positions. I believe the BIGGEST problem that WK will face is that the other MLB teams don't WANT some of our players at any cost and other players at the cost we would have to have in return. LaRue screams to mind as a player in the former category with Jr. in the latter. LBBC, I believe you are 100% correct in this, regarding the inability for some to want certain players and their salaries, or both. Another reason I'm NEVER in favor of long term, pay escalation contracts and more, incentive based performance contracts over time. Usually those last 1-2 years on most contracts, are loaded and when players either get moved or fade away, with a team having to bear the burden often times. I like JR but if they can get some comparable trade value, with him and a package deal for pitching, leadoff type players....it would have to be considered, simply from his age standpoint.
October 4, 200619 yr I really wouldnt want to see him go but if they do get rid of him hopefully it will be for a good pitcher you know a name guy. Not just one like Bronson Arroyo even though he is great. Maybe Schmidt out of San Fran. The Reds still need his bat but at the same time are 1 good pitcher away from making the playoffs.
October 4, 200619 yr I really wouldnt want to see him go but if they do get rid of him hopefully it will be for a good pitcher you know a name guy. Not just one like Bronson Arroyo even though he is great. Maybe Schmidt out of San Fran. The Reds still need his bat but at the same time are 1 good pitcher away from making the playoffs.Well put and if a GM was going to move a offensive producer and your choices are Griffey or Dunn, to me the choice to move JR, would be my decision and based on his age. Like you mentioned, his name would perhaps also have more equal trade value and he may end up being a DH, with all his leg injuries. I like JR, but completely understand that MLB is a business first.
October 4, 200619 yr Well put and if a GM was going to move a offensive producer and your choices are Griffey or Dunn, to me the choice to move JR, would be my decision and based on his age. Like you mentioned, his name would perhaps also have more equal trade value and he may end up being a DH, with all his leg injuries. I like JR, but completely understand that MLB is a business first. Well, there goes his MVP chances!
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