My only thing, FB, is that those going to the "programs" to be fed spiritually are usually not the downtrodden, the hopeless, etc. It is usually "church people," who then very often do not themselves go out and be disciples to those who are not only unfed, but are not even at the table.

My only thing, FB, is that those going to the "programs" to be fed spiritually are usually not the downtrodden, the hopeless, etc. It is usually "church people," who then very often do not themselves go out and be disciples to those who are not only unfed, but are not even at the table.

My argument in favor of marketing would be this, if you're people aren't "visiting",etc. and going out to be disciples, why not try some other methods to get new folks into your church?

My only thing, FB, is that those going to the "programs" to be fed spiritually are usually not the downtrodden, the hopeless, etc. It is usually "church people," who then very often do not themselves go out and be disciples to those who are not only unfed, but are not even at the table.

My experience with Upward has been that 25% of the 120 children participating in our FIRST year indicated that they had no church affiliation. To me, that is a pretty huge number. More than I would say a VBS brings in.

 

And while YES we are to reach the "non church people," we also have a responsibility to help those that are new to their faith grow in their faith.

 

We cannot dump them in the baptistry pit and then push them on their way. I believe it is EQUALLY important that a plan is in place to help them grow in their faith and bring others to Christ as it is for us to go out into our communities. And I view the latter as vital.

My only thing, FB, is that those going to the "programs" to be fed spiritually are usually not the downtrodden, the hopeless, etc. It is usually "church people," who then very often do not themselves go out and be disciples to those who are not only unfed, but are not even at the table.

I respectfully submit that this is a "human" and American cultural problem more so than it is merely a church missions or administration failing, and falls under my conveniently included "catch all"...

Programs that feed these genuine needs first, in order to open ears to the true gospel cannot be condemned… improved upon certainly, but not condemned..

It is also with great respect that I point out that it is not merely the traditionally defined "downtrodden and hopeless" who are truly starving in spirit... that are emotionally famished. I would submit that (as a percentage) there are as many Yuppies cruising around in Porches and Beemers that are anorexic in spirit, as there are truly destitute individuals facing the same spiritual emptiness.

 

In many ways, the destitute are at an advantage in this regard, from the standpoint that it is less of a challenge to learn to rely upon God (God's people) for every meal when you’re motivated (by physical hunger and genuine need) to accept assistance. (This IMO, is where I feel that our government has improperly usurped the role of the church in our culture… but I digress.) There is a greater danger of "pride" in abundant self-sufficiency that leads individuals to (falsely) believe they are able to do for themselves and therefore do not need God. I know too many of them personally for anyone to convince me otherwise.

 

For the record, I too struggle with the Country Club approach to the Gospel. I personally detest the watering down of the Truth in a foolish attempt to make it more palatable. We merely make it weaker… often to the point of having no impact whatsoever. There are too many in this nation who view the Gospel as a collection of bland platitudes and well worn moral instructions as a consequence of this attempt to make God's Word more user friendly.

 

Even so, consider this... Mother Teresa went into the slums of Calcutta to minister to the impoverished where they were, as they were. She did not insist that they take a bath, get a job, buy a house and become "self-sufficient" to be worthy of her ministry. That would be absurd. She also didn't insist that her recipients stop feeling unworthy due to their circumstances before they would be able to receive God’s grace.

 

In the same manner, 180 degrees away, but very much in dealing with the same set of human traits, it makes no sense to insist that the arrogant and wealthy surrender all their possessions and feelings of accomplishment to be exposed to the Gospel, or to receive God’s mercy.

 

In the best of both scenarios, we realize that we are all unworthy as a consequence of sin. None will escape God's judgment, and we are made worthy for no other reason than the fact the God paid the highest price for each one of us with the sacrifice of His Son Jesus Christ.

 

We then come to realize that God loves each of us with equal passion, and He did not... could not, pay a greater price for any one of us over another. Over time as we grow in Him, the poor are elevated from their squalor and hopelessness and the rich are humbled and willing to be generous with their abundance.

 

The trick therefore, is not in getting the hungry man to the table, but in getting the well fed to sit down to the proper (spiritual) food.

 

The key is clearly the preservation of the integrity of the Gospel throughout the process. This is an enormous challenge in our culture, and I am hesitant to be too critical of sincere efforts to reach people wherever they happen to be along life's path.

 

The old cliché of, “If we can save but one soul, it will have been worth the effort” applies here IMO.

My argument in favor of marketing would be this, if you're people aren't "visiting",etc. and going out to be disciples, why not try some other methods to get new folks into your church?

Because it then becomes enabling; you are encouraging their placidity.

Most people are more likely to listen to what you have to say when you get involved in there lifes, there interests (e.g. youth sports, adult softball, cookouts, etc.) A simple acronym to go by is

 

F - Family

I - Interests

R - Religious

M - Message

 

People are more likely to tune into what you have to say during vistation or while witnessing when you want to get involved in there lives. This by figuring out about there families and what interests them. When people share what means the most to them and you are glad to listen, they are more likely in-turn to listen to what means the most to you and what you care about. :thumb:

 

So I say if gyms will bring people to Christ then open them. If libraries and food courts will get people involved in the Church I say do it!

Because it then becomes enabling; you are encouraging their placidity.

I agree, however, we live in the era IMO of the Lukewarm Church. I can't speak of your church, but in ours we have a bunch of pew sitters who need no "enabling". They won't go and visit for love or money. So how can we as a Church expect to spread the message with the 3 or 4 who do visit? I feel like if we can create something exciting for folks to become enthused by, regardless of what it is (within reason), then it is my opinion that we should try it.

Our pastor is delivering a series of messages with the theme of being a "missions" minded church right here at home. A common theme each week is listening to the Holy Spirit as He will point out opportunities for you to share Christ and then having the courage to follow thru. A man in our Bible fellowship class mentioned that he had been burdened over a friend that he knew needed salvation. He mentioned it to a few others that he was looking for a way to reach this person so a suggestion was made to invite him to play some basketball at the church. His efforst were rewarded as the friend accepted the invite to play ball. God allowed the seed to be planted this night and he also made way for it to be watered, weeded and hopefully soon the crop will be harvested. On the very night this man came to play ball another church member injured his knee while playing. He was prescribed physical therapy for the injury. Guess who the therapist is........Thats right! The therapist is the very man they intended to witness to! Irony? I dont think so.......Sounds like Gods will to me.........Maybe would not have happened without the church's gym.............

 

Matthew 4:19 "Come follow me and I will make you fishers of men"

Great story...The gym is a tool to help spread the Gospel. Thanks for sharing.

I don't really understand this "visitation" notion. Someone, whom I don't really know at all, should invite me into their home, because I stopped by, to let me tell them about this personal relationship with someone that they don't even know (JESUS).

 

Shouldn't our witness be our daily lives? We meet people, develop a relationship with them and because we are Christians they see Christ's love through the joy that we have and want to know more about it:creepy:

Matthew 28, read what Jesus said. I love meeting strangers and sharing the word.

I don't really understand this "visitation" notion. Someone, whom I don't really know at all, should invite me into their home, because I stopped by, to let me tell them about this personal relationship with someone that they don't even know (JESUS).

 

Shouldn't our witness be our daily lives? We meet people, develop a relationship with them and because we are Christians they see Christ's love through the joy that we have and want to know more about it:creepy:

You are correct, but that is only part of it.

 

When you meet a new person and just holding a conversation, would you tell them about your have children? Names? Grades?