August 22, 201610 yr Votto with his 3rd RBI of the day with a one out triple in the 6th. He's 3-4 on the day and is a HR shy of the cycle. Votto sucks.
August 23, 201610 yr You threw out the era as the good I threw out the won/loss as the slightly above average. Bottom line is you go to the playoffs based on wins and losses not era. Good thing we got rid of Chapman then because he is 22-20.
August 23, 201610 yr I'm not even going to bother if you are using W-L records in your argument. It's unbelievable isn't it?
August 23, 201610 yr We still on pace to demolish the HRs allowed in a season record? Reds have given up 202 HRs this year. NL record is 239 by the Rockies in 2001 and the ML record is 241 by the Tigers in 1996. So yes, they're on pace to shatter it. :lol2:
August 23, 201610 yr Reds have given up 202 HRs this year. NL record is 239 by the Rockies in 2001 and the ML record is 241 by the Tigers in 1996. So yes, they're on pace to shatter it. :lol2: Might as well be historically bad.
August 23, 201610 yr Good thing we got rid of Chapman then because he is 22-20. You don't base a closers worth strictly on w/l. Closers worth is based on saves not w/l. Below are career records of closers at the top of the list. Career saves leader Mariano Rivera, (652), seems to be the exception record wise but his record is only .577 at 82-60 and that includes his 1st season as a starter at 5-3. Look at these career records and tell me what their worth was based on. So your Chapman comparison doesn't float in this discussion. Trevor Hoffman 601 saves 54-64 Lee Smith 478 saves 58-76 John Franco 424 saves 90-87 Billy Wagner 422 saves 46-39 Francisco Rodriguez 420 saves 48-47 Dennis Eckersly 390 saves 46-43 (as a closer)
August 23, 201610 yr It's unbelievable isn't it? I see the double team coming so I'll discontinue my argument right here. I know that on BGP there are a lot of things that you can't have your own opinion on and I guess this is one of them.
August 23, 201610 yr I see the double team coming so I'll discontinue my argument right here. I know that on BGP there are a lot of things that you can't have your own opinion on and I guess this is one of them. You can have whatever opinions you'd like. Fact is, wins and losses is a terrible metric to use to judge a pitcher's value or worth.
August 23, 201610 yr Okay give me my opinion then and tell me just what a starter's worth IS based on if it's not wins and losses.
August 23, 201610 yr The key metrics used for pitchers are ERA, ERA+, WHIP, OBA, K/BB ratio, K/9 IP, and BB/9 IP. Felix Hernandez won the CY Young in 2010 with a (almost) .500 record of 13-12. If W/L was what you based it on, why wouldn't the award just go to the pitcher with the most wins each season?
August 23, 201610 yr FIP is also a big one the saber guys use. For example Homer Bailey was 17th among all MLB pitchers in WAR and FIP that year. Just for laughs Chris Sale was 8th with a record of 11-14 and ERA of 3.07
August 23, 201610 yr That's not something you see everyday....Josh Smith gives up Andrew Toles first career HR, and then on the very next pitch gives up Rob Segedin's 1st career HR. Welcome to the new Reds Bullpen -- same as the old Reds bullpen!!!
August 23, 201610 yr FIP is also a big one the saber guys use. For example Homer Bailey was 17th among all MLB pitchers in WAR and FIP that year. Just for laughs Chris Sale was 8th with a record of 11-14 and ERA of 3.07 What does FIP stand for?
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