I understand what you are saying Jesse. But my problem is "who decides what is best for America?"

 

I ask this because it's highly likely that your idea of what is best for America and mine are probably pretty close. But what happens when it is someone who is more extreme and radical but uses the cloak of "What is Best for America" that is different than your view or mine?

 

Hope I'm not being too muddy in my point. :lol2:

 

Nope spot on. It's a very difficult problem. People will do terrible things when they are told by a superior and they are just following orders. Most Germans were not homicidal, maniacs out to commit genocide. They were patriots of their country following orders. Hitler knew what was best for his country. Not condoning Germany's action it was horrible. Pointing out how quick you can slide down the side of the slope when one person, party, government gets to decide what's best and you get no say. I am angered at those who are here and disrespect our values, break our laws, burn our flag, step on it, what if they have the power and decide what's best is doing what Hitler did to the Jewish population to me and you. We shouldn't have that power over each other. Now if you want to leave don't let the Eagle bite your butt on the way out!

I may be way off base here, but I feel strongly that people from other countries should not come here to live and try and force their former countries laws and rule into our culture. We definitely have a culture here and it's not what they had previously. They don't want to assimilate, they want to BYOC. Totally disagree with that mindset. If I moved to another country, i think it would be so arrogant of me to form a pocket of like minds and try to change their culture and ignore what they have had in place for hundreds or thousands of years.

 

Thank God our forefathers did not think like you when they came to take the land from the people who lived here at the time, with their culture and their laws.

 

I believe the same as you do. However, I do recognize the irony.

I never started this thread to argue. You need to read my first few posts where I tried to state that. Never asked anyone's opinion, just stated that this very thought had come to my mind and it made sense. What happened after was I was told how wrong I was. If thats what you want to do, then dont beat around the bush. I am no bully, but I will defend myself when I am told I am wrong for having a thought, and it was my thought at that. I never asked one person to agree or tried to ram it down anyones mouth.

 

So if you think its got possibilities I welcome your thoughts. I have always valued your opinion, but not this shade throwing at me.

 

The thing is you have to realize that people are going to have different opinions. You can't start a discussion with an abstract thought and move in a number of different directions then become defensive when someone else has a different perspective. Instead of getting upset that someone thinks differently than you, maybe try thinking of why they came to that conclusion or what causes them to approach an issue in a different way.

 

I know politics are off limits, but hopefully this broad analogy passes muster, and if not, any mod, feel free to edit my post, but most liberals don't automatically want to limit freedoms or find discrimination under every crack, and most conservatives don't automatically dislike anything contrary to the status quo. Everyone approaches issues from different angles, and the vast majority of us aren't evil.

I never started this thread to argue. You need to read my first few posts where I tried to state that. Never asked anyone's opinion, just stated that this very thought had come to my mind and it made sense. What happened after was I was told how wrong I was. If thats what you want to do, then dont beat around the bush. I am no bully, but I will defend myself when I am told I am wrong for having a thought, and it was my thought at that. I never asked one person to agree or tried to ram it down anyones mouth.

 

So if you think its got possibilities I welcome your thoughts. I have always valued your opinion, but not this shade throwing at me.

 

I don't welcome the way you "invite" discussion, then proceed to skewer anyone who doesn't throw out an "Amen, Jesse James!".

 

For giggles, I'll throw out my opinion:

 

I am an American anywhere I go. I will be and American if I live in Germany, Ireland, The Congo. I am an American by circumstance. I can be a good American or a Bad American.

 

I am an American Citizen of the United Stares because I choose to be at this point in my life. As a Citizen, I am involved in the shaping of this country, by casting votes, by participating in my local community, by working to make my country a great place to live and thrive.

 

Further, you can define very, very narrowly by adding all the qualifiers you want. I will still be an American. I will still be a citizen of the United States. I don't believe that I have to choose one monniker over the other to prove a point.

 

A friend of mine is married to a Scot. He's a Scottish Citizen of the United States. He works here, he volunteers here, he is very active in his community. It doesn't make him less patriotic because he didn't happen to be born in America.

 

I have other friends from other countries that are also Citizens....France, Hungary, Bosnia, Iran, Greece, UK, Australia, to name a few.

 

All this trying to prove only a certain subset of humanity is worthy of being called American is inflammatory and does nothing but try to further create division. We don't choose where we are born. We choose where we live. And some people come to the United States because that is the last choice.

I don't welcome the way you "invite" discussion, then proceed to skewer anyone who doesn't throw out an "Amen, Jesse James!".

 

For giggles, I'll throw out my opinion:

 

I am an American anywhere I go. I will be and American if I live in Germany, Ireland, The Congo. I am an American by circumstance. I can be a good American or a Bad American.

 

I am an American Citizen of the United Stares because I choose to be at this point in my life. As a Citizen, I am involved in the shaping of this country, by casting votes, by participating in my local community, by working to make my country a great place to live and thrive.

 

Further, you can define very, very narrowly by adding all the qualifiers you want. I will still be an American. I will still be a citizen of the United States. I don't believe that I have to choose one monniker over the other to prove a point.

 

A friend of mine is married to a Scot. He's a Scottish Citizen of the United States. He works here, he volunteers here, he is very active in his community. It doesn't make him less patriotic because he didn't happen to be born in America.

 

I have other friends from other countries that are also Citizens....France, Hungary, Bosnia, Iran, Greece, UK, Australia, to name a few.

 

All this trying to prove only a certain subset of humanity is worthy of being called American is inflammatory and does nothing but try to further create division. We don't choose where we are born. We choose where we live. And some people come to the United States because that is the last choice.

 

But we do choose our actions and thats my only point. My initial post had nothing to do with race or anything like that. You could be from the South, North, East or West and be 5 generations removed from any ancestor you had that might be have immigrated here and not have the United States best interest at hand or you can be a ISIS member who infiltrated the Syrian refugees that are fleeing ISIS and not have our best interest at hand. Thats what my initial thoughts were and thats what they are this morning. The people coming to America because thats their last choice is probably not anyone thats gonna mess something up and get deported.

 

One last point. I nor anyone else has to prove that certain people are out to get America and everything it stands for. All one must do is open their eyes. :thumb:

The thing is you have to realize that people are going to have different opinions. You can't start a discussion with an abstract thought and move in a number of different directions then become defensive when someone else has a different perspective. Instead of getting upset that someone thinks differently than you, maybe try thinking of why they came to that conclusion or what causes them to approach an issue in a different way.

 

I know politics are off limits, but hopefully this broad analogy passes muster, and if not, any mod, feel free to edit my post, but most liberals don't automatically want to limit freedoms or find discrimination under every crack, and most conservatives don't automatically dislike anything contrary to the status quo. Everyone approaches issues from different angles, and the vast majority of us aren't evil.

 

I dont think anyone of you are evil. And you make good points. It was not an opinion that got me upset. I responded to that part above just now. Does anywhere in that response show any disrespect?

But we do choose our actions and thats my only point. My initial post had nothing to do with race or anything like that. You could be from the South, North, East or West and be 5 generations removed from any ancestor you had that might be have immigrated here and not have the United States best interest at hand or you can be a ISIS member who infiltrated the Syrian refugees that are fleeing ISIS and not have our best interest at hand. Thats what my initial thoughts were and thats what they are this morning. The people coming to America because thats their last choice is probably not anyone thats gonna mess something up and get deported.

 

One last point. I nor anyone else has to prove that certain people are out to get America and everything it stands for. All one must do is open their eyes. :thumb:

 

Maybe you only watch the news reports that focus on people not born in this country. I am here to tell you, the most insidious dangers to America and the American Way are pepole born and bred in America. American on American crime is the norm. Don't tell me I have blinders on. I think that those focusing on immigration (illegal or legal) and immigrants as a greater theat is disingenuous, at best.

You are being redirected...

 

 

Just a sampling From the Article:

 

51% of U.S. Muslims want Sharia; 60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam than to U.S.

 

Hopefully none of them ever runs for president, because here’s what he’d have to say about the U.S. system of government:

• Muzammil Siddiqi, chairman of both the Fiqh Council of North America, which dispenses Islamic rulings, and the North American Islamic Trust, which owns most of the mosques in the U.S.: “As Muslims, we should participate in the system to safeguard our interests and try to bring gradual change, (but) we must not forget that Allah’s rules have to be established in all lands, and all our efforts should lead to that direction.”

• Omar Ahmad, co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the top Muslim lobby group in Washington: “Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Quran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth.”

• CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper: “I wouldn’t want to create the impression that I wouldn’t like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future.”

• Imam Siraj Wahhaj, director of the Muslim Alliance in North America: “In time, this so-called democracy will crumble, and there will be nothing. And the only thing that will remain will be Islam.”

• Imam Zaid Shakir, co-founder of Zaytuna College in Berkeley, Calif.: “If we put a nationwide infrastructure in place and marshaled our resources, we’d take over this country in a very short time. . . . What a great victory it will be for Islam to have this country in the fold and ranks of the Muslims.”…

You are being redirected...

 

 

Just a sampling From the Article:

 

51% of U.S. Muslims want Sharia; 60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam than to U.S.

 

Hopefully none of them ever runs for president, because here’s what he’d have to say about the U.S. system of government:

• Muzammil Siddiqi, chairman of both the Fiqh Council of North America, which dispenses Islamic rulings, and the North American Islamic Trust, which owns most of the mosques in the U.S.: “As Muslims, we should participate in the system to safeguard our interests and try to bring gradual change, (but) we must not forget that Allah’s rules have to be established in all lands, and all our efforts should lead to that direction.”

• Omar Ahmad, co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the top Muslim lobby group in Washington: “Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Quran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth.”

• CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper: “I wouldn’t want to create the impression that I wouldn’t like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future.”

• Imam Siraj Wahhaj, director of the Muslim Alliance in North America: “In time, this so-called democracy will crumble, and there will be nothing. And the only thing that will remain will be Islam.”

• Imam Zaid Shakir, co-founder of Zaytuna College in Berkeley, Calif.: “If we put a nationwide infrastructure in place and marshaled our resources, we’d take over this country in a very short time. . . . What a great victory it will be for Islam to have this country in the fold and ranks of the Muslims.”…

 

 

And you still want us to believe that the original intent of this thread was not the Muslims?

And you still want us to believe that the original intent of this thread was not the Muslims?

 

Yes. Cause thats the truth. Kinda morphed here. Just posted some helpful links to anyone who would like to at least know some background.I don't question you when you start a thread so I dont see whats the issue here. Some truth is good, especially when its a direct quote. Thats kinda hard to refute.

Citizens just live here and enjoy the rights and freedoms bestowed upon them by Americans. That's the difference.

Citizens just live here and enjoy the rights and freedoms bestowed upon them by Americans. That's the difference.

 

Thats a good way to sum it up. Good post.