You can have a catcher's balk on any play, and you already answered your own question per this discussion.

 

See number 2 on your list. The catcher can't leave the box before the pitch on an intentional walk, or any other pitch. Don't ask me for a rule number, I'm not going to look it up, it's the rule though.

 

 

SM - I completely agree. That's not the debate at hand.

Absolutely. Would've been a run in and a runner on second. It turned out that the runner trying to steal second was thrown out and the other runner had to stay at third. So, instead of run scored, runner on 2nd and 1 out. It was runner on third, 2 outs.

 

That call along with the interference call when sliding into second were bad calls. They gave Lex Cath a double play that never should've happened.

 

Still, that didn't lose BW the ballgame. Walks killed them.

 

I have to disagree with you....I was at the game and I saw the interference call from the third base side. It was definitely interference, the runner is not allowed to slide past the bag and make contact (which he did). His legs made contact with the fielder on the left field side of the bag (and put the fielder on the ground). I saw a few questionable calls during the tournament and some out right "blown" calls, but this play was not one of them. The second base ump got this one right. As to the catcher's balk, I believe that one was missed. One of the other poster's is correct however, it's not interference unless the batter attempted to swing. So, if there's a call on that play, it would have to be a catcher's balk. (Note: Typically, this is not called on an intentional walk, even though it could be because there is typically no advantage for the defense). IMO,during the play in question is an instance where the catcher's balk should have been called because it gives the defense an advantage.) However, if the correct call had been made, the Lex Cath coach would have been down at the plate instead of Myeroff.

This is what happened. They were anticipating a suicide and threw a pitch out. The catcher jumped out of the "Catcher's box" before the pitch was thrown. This is why you see all catchers stand up with an arm out when they intentionally walk batters.

 

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Did the runner come anyway? I thought they threw a runner out at 2nd on the play.

Did the runner come anyway? I thought they threw a runner out at 2nd on the play.

He did. The runner on 3rd stayed.

I have to disagree with you....I was at the game and I saw the interference call from the third base side. It was definitely interference, the runner is not allowed to slide past the bag and make contact (which he did). His legs made contact with the fielder on the left field side of the bag (and put the fielder on the ground). I saw a few questionable calls during the tournament and some out right "blown" calls, but this play was not one of them. The second base ump got this one right. As to the catcher's balk, I believe that one was missed. One of the other poster's is correct however, it's not interference unless the batter attempted to swing. So, if there's a call on that play, it would have to be a catcher's balk. (Note: Typically, this is not called on an intentional walk, even though it could be because there is typically no advantage for the defense). IMO,during the play in question is an instance where the catcher's balk should have been called because it gives the defense an advantage.) However, if the correct call had been made, the Lex Cath coach would have been down at the plate instead of Myeroff.

 

Shirley the rule doesn't state that you can not slide past the base at all. If so, they need to amend that.

 

Let me ask you this, what if he does a pop up slide? They would've called interference anyway. In other words, you can only slide into the bag, with your feet touching the front of the bag and have to stay on the ground, correct?

Shirley the rule doesn't state that you can not slide past the base at all. If so, they need to amend that.

 

Let me ask you this, what if he does a pop up slide? They would've called interference anyway. In other words, you can only slide into the bag, with your feet touching the front of the bag and have to stay on the ground, correct?

I agree with you on this, I have seen in many cases the runner slide over the bag. The 2nd basemen was right on top of the base...what the runner supposed to do?

cshs81, In NFHS Rule 6.1.1, the last sentences states that, "The catcher shall have both feet in the catcher's box at the time of the pitch".

 

I don't think that's what we're debating. Lets assume the catcher was in the catcher's box at TOP. He sees R1 trying to steal and jumps out of the box to catch the ball and then throws him out. I've got nothing. He was in the box at TOP and THEN jumped out.

 

I see nothing in 6.1.1 that prevents this play.

Didn't see the play, but the catcher has to be set in the catchers box until the pitch is delivered. He can step out and recieve the ball for a pitch out once the ball has been released. If he steps out before the ball is pitched, its a balk and runners get one base.

 

 

DD - let me apologize for not registering that you said he's fine once the ball has been released. If he's out before the T.O.P., its a balk in FED but nothing in OBR.

 

Once the TOP occurs, he can go outside the box without penalty unless he interferes with the batter.

 

My apologies.

DD - let me apologize for not registering that you said he's fine once the ball has been released. If he's out before the T.O.P., its a balk in FED but nothing in OBR.

 

Once the TOP occurs, he can go outside the box without penalty unless he interferes with the batter.

 

My apologies.

I agree and if the homeplate Umpire is watching the pitcher, how can he see the feet of the catcher....never understood this logic, due to the catcher is usually standing upright out of the crouch and the Umpire, will usually come up with him and often, the location of the feet can't be seen....like the outside corner of the plate can't be seen, by the Umpire who sits up inside on the left shoulder of a catcher

(but that's another discussion)

Did anyone see the interview with Beechwood's coach on the news? He was irate about the no-call on this play, and said to the camera "the umpires sukked, and please make sure that you air that on tv." I would be shocked if he is not reprimanded by both his school, and the khsaa.

 

In a "discussion" with Julian Tackett, the KHSAA official in charge of the tournament, it was suggested that the KHSAA hire officials that know all of the rules of baseball. Believe it or not he said he agreed that the officiating had been poor throughout the tournament, especially the interferance call at second. What an indictment of your own umpires. BTW the second baseman for Beechwood was taken out twice with much harder slides than the one that was called.

Shirley the rule doesn't state that you can not slide past the base at all. If so, they need to amend that.

 

Let me ask you this, what if he does a pop up slide? They would've called interference anyway. In other words, you can only slide into the bag, with your feet touching the front of the bag and have to stay on the ground, correct?

 

That is pretty much correct for NFHS rules, you have to slide directly to the base and not overslide it and make contact. You can break up a double play by executing a legal slide and making contact but on the first base side of the bag. If you overslide and make contact, it's an illegal slide by rule. Pop up slides are not illegal per se, but they are if they alter the fielder's play (either catch or throw). In other words,pop up slides are not interference by automatic rule, but interference due to umpire's judgement. The slide leg cannot be raised above the fielder's knee or no intent to "slash" or "kick". This information is in the NFHS rule book Rule 2-32 (Articles 1 and 2), which is the definitions for legal and illegal slides.

In a "discussion" with Julian Tackett, the KHSAA official in charge of the tournament, it was suggested that the KHSAA hire officials that know all of the rules of baseball. Believe it or not he said he agreed that the officiating had been poor throughout the tournament, especially the interferance call at second. What an indictment of your own umpires. BTW the second baseman for Beechwood was taken out twice with much harder slides than the one that was called.

 

I don't believe you regarding your statement about Julian on the interference call at second. Also, I don't believe he would publically say that the officiating was poor either,regardless of what he might have thought personally. I saw some blown calls but not enough to make a blanket statement that the officiating was poor.

That is pretty much correct for NFHS rules, you have to slide directly to the base and not overslide it and make contact. You can break up a double play by executing a legal slide and making contact but on the first base side of the bag. If you overslide and make contact, it's an illegal slide by rule. Pop up slides are not illegal per se, but they are if they alter the fielder's play (either catch or throw). In other words,pop up slides are not interference by automatic rule, but interference due to umpire's judgement. The slide leg cannot be raised above the fielder's knee or no intent to "slash" or "kick". This information is in the NFHS rule book Rule 2-32 (Articles 1 and 2), which is the definitions for legal and illegal slides.

 

In that case, look for a lot of pop up slides. You can't possibly expect a kid to go in hard to a base and stop at the front of the bag without popping up or oversliding. If the kid was even a foot behind the bag, I could see where this is warranted but the kid was on the base. It was a bang, bang play. NFHS needs to look at that rule.

I agree with you on this, I have seen in many cases the runner slide over the bag. The 2nd basemen was right on top of the base...what the runner supposed to do?

 

Fairfan, I witnessed this play with my own eyes and the contact was clearly made on the left field side of the bag, not on top of it. Anyway, HS ball (and a lot of the rules) are all about safety. You see double plays broken up all the time on TV with wide slides, or sliding over the bag. It's just not legal in NFHS. Grab a rule book and read the above referenced rule (2-32).

I don't believe you regarding your statement about Julian on the interference call at second. Also, I don't believe he would publically say that the officiating was poor either,regardless of what he might have thought personally. I saw some blown calls but not enough to make a blanket statement that the officiating was poor.

 

 

That's fine, don't believe me but several people heard him say it and I will stand by my previous post. The officiating was horrible for the entire tournament.