My first two cars I paid cash at age 16 and 21, they were cheap. (Well Dad paid cash for the first one. I paid the second one.) In 2012 I financed a 2012 Fusion with 24k miles on it for 72 months. payment $294 a month 2.9% interest. I have 14 months left to pay. Currently has 75k miles. Looking forward to the day its paid off and hope to get a couple more years out of it.

One simple rule: If you ever trade in your car and it's worth less than you still owe on it you should have leased.

 

That's what my dad preached to me at a young age :thumb:

Sorry Mamaw, but you are going to lose this one. Autos today are MUCH better engineered and built than even just a few years ago, much less 40-50 years ago. Tolerances are much tighter, engine output much greater in relation to size...they are much much safer...most everything is better...and usually a LOT better.

 

The one thing that could be argued that's not better is that vehicles can't be worked on in the driveway anymore by the "shade tree" mechanic. It's even hard to change spark plugs or get to an oil filter on some cars, much less do actual mechanical work. Even something that used to be simple like changing a water pump or an alternator is almost impossible on a new car, much less something more involved. But hey, you don't HAVE to go out and change your spark plugs every 12-15,000 miles, change the points and time it, change your fan belt every 6 months, etc. So it's all a trade off, and a trade off for the better most would say.

I might disagree that a shade tree mechanic can't work on newer cars. Yes, things are harder to get too like starters and water pumps, but they can still be fixed by anyone that knows about engines or really just has youtube. It takes longer because you normally have to remove a lot of things to get to what you need to work on but engines are still engines. The basic core of most of them have not changed. And you can find a youtube video on pretty much anything you want to do.

I might disagree that a shade tree mechanic can't work on newer cars. Yes, things are harder to get too like starters and water pumps, but they can still be fixed by anyone that knows about engines or really just has youtube. It takes longer because you normally have to remove a lot of things to get to what you need to work on but engines are still engines. The basic core of most of them have not changed. And you can find a youtube video on pretty much anything you want to do.

 

 

Though you are basically correct...a combustion engine is essentially the same as it was 100 years ago...pistons compress fuel, combustion takes place, valves, crank shaft, cam, etc., it's still WAY more involved today and much more than most any "shade tree" mechanic wants to, or should take on. Special tools are needed for many engines today, and taking something off/apart and replacing it/trying to fix it may also do damage to the computer system or cause issues with it and you have to turn right around and take it back to the shop.

 

I used to be a decent shade tree mechanic back in the day (had 3 years of auto shop in high school, what they would call "tech school" now) and did a lot of my own work that didn't take a ton of tools or a covered garage. I have a 1996 Ford pickup that I will do some things to...but my 2015 Hyundai? Forget about that.

Not to mention the regular maintenance is easier and far less frequent. No more oil changes every 3k miles, it's 5k or even 10k. Tune ups are no longer necessary. Diagnosis of what problems you have is much easier with detailed computer codes, eliminating the trial and error days of the old days. Yes cars are more complicated, which makes them more complicated and expensive to fix if you have a problem, and it's much tougher for DIY'ers/shade tree mechanics. Old cars were simpler and thus simpler to fix. But you were either fixing them or doing som sort of maintenance far more often.

 

We were busy last night will post today for him

Sorry Mamaw, but you are going to lose this one. Autos today are MUCH better engineered and built than even just a few years ago, much less 40-50 years ago. Tolerances are much tighter, engine output much greater in relation to size...they are much much safer...most everything is better...and usually a LOT better.

 

The one thing that could be argued that's not better is that vehicles can't be worked on in the driveway anymore by the "shade tree" mechanic. It's even hard to change spark plugs or get to an oil filter on some cars, much less do actual mechanical work. Even something that used to be simple like changing a water pump or an alternator is almost impossible on a new car, much less something more involved. But hey, you don't HAVE to go out and change your spark plugs every 12-15,000 miles, change the points and time it, change your fan belt every 6 months, etc. So it's all a trade off, and a trade off for the better most would say.

 

Were busy last night will reply today. Have been watching the news of Rep. Scalise, will get Papaw to give me his notes. Just to preface his answer, he has worked on anything on wheels and an engine since around 1958.

Not to mention the regular maintenance is easier and far less frequent. No more oil changes every 3k miles, it's 5k or even 10k. Tune ups are no longer necessary. Diagnosis of what problems you have is much easier with detailed computer codes, eliminating the trial and error days of the old days. Yes cars are more complicated, which makes them more complicated and expensive to fix if you have a problem, and it's much tougher for DIY'ers/shade tree mechanics. Old cars were simpler and thus simpler to fix. But you were either fixing them or doing som sort of maintenance far more often.

 

Ok. Let's get one thing straight. Papaw is NO shade tree mechanic. Been working on cars and heavy duty trucks for 50 years in a business family owned. He has worked on the very best and the cheapest. His Uncle raced in the Dayton 500 so that tells you the quality and knowledge of his work. Ford had a problem in the 80s if I remember with ambulance catching fire and could not figure out the problem. Some of you may remember. Papaw was working on one at our business and figured out the problem. Ford wanted him to come to them and explain them their engineering flaw. He said he was too busy and could not afford the time off. Ford came to him and the flaw was corrected, no more ambulance fires. Papaw is not just a mechanic, he has worked for BGP members and they know Papaw is a diagnostician. My cardiologist once described him as a Dr. Of Cars. No part goes on until the problem is found, period. As cars changed so did he and his knowledge. Cars are more complicated, so then Papaw had continuing education until retirement. Computer diagnostics became a necessary purchase along with upgrades as cars became more computerized, one for each manufacturer. Cars changed, Papaw gained more knowledge. He did warranty and maintenance work on dealer cars. So, just to get one thing in perspective, Papaw is not a shade tree mechanic and we sold our business in 2016 only to retire. Owners of classic cars and muscle cars, that he took care of, got appointments in line for a last ckeckup before he retired. Believe me, I never saw him the last quarter of 2015.

Ok. Let's get one thing straight. Papaw is NO shade tree mechanic. Been working on cars and heavy duty trucks for 50 years in a business family owned. He has worked on the very best and the cheapest. His Uncle raced in the Dayton 500 so that tells you the quality and knowledge of his work. Ford had a problem in the 80s if I remember with ambulance catching fire and could not figure out the problem. Some of you may remember. Papaw was working on one at our business and figured out the problem. Ford wanted him to come to them and explain them their engineering flaw. He said he was too busy and could not afford the time off. Ford came to him and the flaw was corrected, no more ambulance fires. Papaw is not just a mechanic, he has worked for BGP members and they know Papaw is a diagnostician. My cardiologist once described him as a Dr. Of Cars. No part goes on until the problem is found, period. As cars changed so did he and his knowledge. Cars are more complicated, so then Papaw had continuing education until retirement. Computer diagnostics became a necessary purchase along with upgrades as cars became more computerized, one for each manufacturer. Cars changed, Papaw gained more knowledge. He did warranty and maintenance work on dealer cars. So, just to get one thing in perspective, Papaw is not a shade tree mechanic and we sold our business in 2016 only to retire. Owners of classic cars and muscle cars, that he took care of, got appointments in line for a last ckeckup before he retired. Believe me, I never saw him the last quarter of 2015.

 

I never questioned your Husband's knowledge or called him a shade tree mechanic (not that being a shade tree mechanic is a bad thing...I wish I could put it on my resume). I just don't agree with lableing current cars as junk engineering, especially when, both statistically and through my first hand knowledge (I work within the auto industry, albeit from a marketing perspective), cars are more reliable than ever.

Funny you should remind me, Papaw was offered a job as a shop teacher. He also gave a presentation at U.K. I repeat he is no driveway or shade tree mechanic. Our shop was as technical as a dealer's even if I as accounting person griped about constant upgrade costs, except they did not have Papaw. And he is one of the most honest people you will ever meet and clients knew it.

Ok. Let's get one thing straight. Papaw is NO shade tree mechanic. Been working on cars and heavy duty trucks for 50 years in a business family owned. He has worked on the very best and the cheapest. His Uncle raced in the Dayton 500 so that tells you the quality and knowledge of his work. Ford had a problem in the 80s if I remember with ambulance catching fire and could not figure out the problem. Some of you may remember. Papaw was working on one at our business and figured out the problem. Ford wanted him to come to them and explain them their engineering flaw. He said he was too busy and could not afford the time off. Ford came to him and the flaw was corrected, no more ambulance fires. Papaw is not just a mechanic, he has worked for BGP members and they know Papaw is a diagnostician. My cardiologist once described him as a Dr. Of Cars. No part goes on until the problem is found, period. As cars changed so did he and his knowledge. Cars are more complicated, so then Papaw had continuing education until retirement. Computer diagnostics became a necessary purchase along with upgrades as cars became more computerized, one for each manufacturer. Cars changed, Papaw gained more knowledge. He did warranty and maintenance work on dealer cars. So, just to get one thing in perspective, Papaw is not a shade tree mechanic and we sold our business in 2016 only to retire. Owners of classic cars and muscle cars, that he took care of, got appointments in line for a last ckeckup before he retired. Believe me, I never saw him the last quarter of 2015.

 

Funny you should remind me, Papaw was offered a job as a shop teacher. He also gave a presentation at U.K. I repeat he is no driveway or shade tree mechanic. Our shop was as technical as a dealer's even if I as accounting person griped about constant upgrade costs, except they did not have Papaw. And he is one of the most honest people you will ever meet and clients knew it.

 

What does any of that have to do with the quality of cars on the road today? :idunno:

I never questioned your Husband's knowledge or called him a shade tree mechanic (not that being a shade tree mechanic is a bad thing...I wish I could put it on my resume). I just don't agree with lableing current cars as junk engineering, especially when, both statistically and through my first hand knowledge (I work within the auto industry, albeit from a marketing perspective), cars are more reliable than ever.

 

And I did not state anywhere about junk engineering. That could be a sensitive issue for some people. The thread topic to paraphrase do you buy with payments lasting 7-8 years and you pay repairs or lease?

What does any of that have to do with the quality of cars on the road today? :idunno:

 

He knows what he is doing is my only answer. And numerous statements about shade tree and driveway mechanics necessitated some statements that we did this for a business for 50 years with a constant wait line. And not just me loving the guy I have been married to for 49 years.

And I did not state anywhere about junk engineering. That could be a sensitive issue for some people. The thread topic to paraphrase do you buy with payments lasting 7-8 years and you pay repairs or lease?

 

You did mention junk engineering.....

 

I have heard him griping about junk engineering for the past decade or two when I would be doing books and inventory

 

And I do think the reliability of current cars does play into the decision to finance longer. It's a much safer bet now to finance for more than 5 years, especially if you can get a low or even better a 0% rate. I'll use someone's else's money at a very low rate almost every day of the week.

He knows what he is doing is my only answer. And numerous statements about shade tree and driveway mechanics necessitated some statements that we did this for a business for 50 years with a constant wait line. And not just me loving the guy I have been married to for 49 years.

 

I think you need to go back and re-read some of the posts Maw...no one accused Paw of being a "shade tree" mechanic...not even sure how you came to that conclusion. The comment was those that consider themselves "shade tree" mechanics, like I did myself at one time, can't work on modern cars they way they could cars years ago. And although cars today are much much better than years past, one might consider not being able to work on them as a fault.

Ok. Let's get one thing straight. Papaw is NO shade tree mechanic. Been working on cars and heavy duty trucks for 50 years in a business family owned. He has worked on the very best and the cheapest. His Uncle raced in the Dayton 500 so that tells you the quality and knowledge of his work. Ford had a problem in the 80s if I remember with ambulance catching fire and could not figure out the problem. Some of you may remember. Papaw was working on one at our business and figured out the problem. Ford wanted him to come to them and explain them their engineering flaw. He said he was too busy and could not afford the time off. Ford came to him and the flaw was corrected, no more ambulance fires. Papaw is not just a mechanic, he has worked for BGP members and they know Papaw is a diagnostician. My cardiologist once described him as a Dr. Of Cars. No part goes on until the problem is found, period. As cars changed so did he and his knowledge. Cars are more complicated, so then Papaw had continuing education until retirement. Computer diagnostics became a necessary purchase along with upgrades as cars became more computerized, one for each manufacturer. Cars changed, Papaw gained more knowledge. He did warranty and maintenance work on dealer cars. So, just to get one thing in perspective, Papaw is not a shade tree mechanic and we sold our business in 2016 only to retire. Owners of classic cars and muscle cars, that he took care of, got appointments in line for a last ckeckup before he retired. Believe me, I never saw him the last quarter of 2015.

Does he do Pro bono consultant work? I might have a question or two about a 2005 Tundra.