When others have said that, they have been railed at by the Homosexual community.

 

FWIW, I've always thought you were A Loof!

 

Googled Aloof and got this on first line :lol:

 

Who are some others who have said that and been failed against by the homosexual community?

Who are some others who have said that and been failed against by the homosexual community?

 

Ted Cruz

Evander Holyfield

Rick Perry

Kirk Cameron

are a few...

I've always belived it's interesting to discuss Nature vs Nurture on this topic. Either way it's not a choice.

 

But it's always been known that the LGBT community takes great offense calling it a choice. Acting like the president's words didn't imply that is silly.

I've always belived it's interesting to discuss Nature vs Nurture on this topic. Either way it's not a choice.

 

But it's always been known that the LGBT community takes great offense calling it a choice. Acting like the president's words didn't imply that is silly.

 

I swear I never knew that. Everytime I have suggested that people are born homosexual people's heads start spinning and they look at me like I'm crazy. Good to know I was always right.

 

Has the LGBT made a statement yet? They've never been shy on telling Obama how they feel about him or things he has said.

Ted Cruz

Evander Holyfield

Rick Perry

Kirk Cameron

are a few...

 

They all said the same thing? That being gay is a choice?

They all said the same thing? That being gay is a choice?

 

Basically, yes. Cruz or Perry one also compared it to an disease such as alcoholism.

I swear I never knew that. Everytime I have suggested that people are born homosexual people's heads start spinning and they look at me like I'm crazy. Good to know I was always right.

 

Has the LGBT made a statement yet? They've never been shy on telling Obama how they feel about him or things he has said.

 

People seem to be more concerned with Green Lipstick than anything that was said so far.

 

President Barack Obama’s gay allies are ignoring his endorsement of the long-standing claim that sexual orientation is a matter of choice.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/obama-says-homosexuality-is-a-lifestyle-choice/

Basically, yes. Cruz or Perry one also compared it to an disease such as alcoholism.

 

:lol2: Surely can you can see the issue in that statement. :lol2:

People seem to be more concerned with Green Lipstick than anything that was said so far.

 

 

Obama Says Homosexuality Is A 'Lifestyle Choice' | The Daily Caller

 

The sky has fallen down over green lipstick. :lol2:

:lol2: Surely can you can see the issue in that statement. :lol2:

 

Yes!

The sky has fallen down over green lipstick. :lol2:

 

Yeah I think the reaction to those interviewers is nuts. I wish every President was interviewed every month by regular Non-Press citizens!

 

Bravo to the President for doing this...I love that he did it!

People seem to be more concerned with Green Lipstick than anything that was said so far.

 

 

Obama Says Homosexuality Is A 'Lifestyle Choice' | The Daily Caller

 

Most important part of that article:

 

 

In fact, Obama used the same interview to announce his endorsement of the progressive demand that the Supreme Court use its power to redefine marriage for the benefit of gays and lesbians.They want the court to force states to award marriage licenses to single-sex couples, even if the states have constitutional amendments prohibiting same-sex marriage.

“My hope is that they go ahead and recognize what I think the majority of people in America now recognize, which is two people who love each other and are treating each other with respect, and aren’t bothering anybody else, why would the law treat them differently?” Obama said.

At times it seems things like this are done intentionally to create distractions to the more pressing issues of the country and world (Russia anyone?)

Yeah I think the reaction to those interviewers is nuts. I wish every President was interviewed every month by regular Non-Press citizens!

 

Bravo to the President for doing this...I love that he did it!

 

I would have advised him against it but I have zero issue with it either.

How about a condensed version just on what the President said first before venturing into which is correct. I know from the past that you feel that "Born that way" is the correct answer.

 

I wrote all of this before I noticed that you requested a condensed version, so hopefully you don't mind that I just go ahead and spill my guts.

 

Also, I did address the "Born This Way" topic as your perception of my view on that is not entirely accurate as I have various thoughts about that which still leave me without any concrete answers that I can defend with any complete certainty.

 

Anyway... here goes.

 

Judging by Obama's all around progressive open mindedness on the matter, I'm confident that no matter how he phrased it, he most likely does understand that being gay is not a choice.

 

Why exactly he used those words I cannot say, and would categorize it as Jumper_Dad had suggested, that maybe he just "Mis-spoke".

 

He was presenting it lightly with compassionate understanding, and although I personally would rather that he'd use different wording, I don't think that it came across in a way that would suggest that he doesn't get it, or that gays would find it offensive, considering his all around message.

 

On the other hand those who insist that it is a "choice" typically add with that their disapproval of it as a life style, which in that case can lead to a gay person feeling offended for being misunderstood.

 

There would be a big difference with people's reactions to what Obama said while defending gays, and some ® official stating it to be a choice while they are expressing it with disapproval.

 

That there would be the reason for mass social objection.

 

If a conservative politician spoke just as Obama did while expressing understanding, I think that it would be applauded that they had even made the strides to come that far.

 

Personally I'm not offended if someone without clear knowledge and understanding on the matter initially thinks that it is a choice, but after I explain to them to the best of my ability in every way possible, and they still insist that it is a choice, is when I can get frustrated with them.

 

I typically have a hard time figuring how they could possibly defend that stance when it's completely obvious to me that they don't really understand.

 

I try to make them see that they themselves never chose to be attracted to the opposite sex, and the lack of logic for one who is attracted to the opposite sex to choose to be with the same sex if their impulses are for the opposite sex.

 

Nobody wakes up one day and says I think that I'll be straight, just as nobody wakes up on day and says I think I'll be gay.

 

In their favor I guess they could argue that it's a "choice" to act on those impulses, but it's not a "choice" for those impulses to be there in the first place.

 

Whether gay or straight and no matter how strong the urge, you could say that everyone ultimately chooses to act on their desires, but those desires in themselves do not evolve out of choice.

 

If they toss in religious beliefs on the matter, I just hope that they can understand that no matter how much they stand behind that belief, that it's still a belief, and while I'm trying to live my life, how sad it would be that I deny myself love in my life because of the strong beliefs of others that are not exactly provable, while my life to me is as real as anything.

 

I try to convince them that no matter how much I personally tried to wish it away, and just be straight, it's just the way I was without choice, and with much analysis from as far back as I can remember, and more so than those never challenged at a young age with the question, that after looking at it, and society, and religion in every way possible, I had to, for fear of going out of my mind conclude that that's just the way I was, and that I as a human being was deserving of being who I am, and living my life accordingly.

 

I try to convince them that with social criticism that it would be much easier in life to be straight, and that I personally would not choose something that I would have to hide for fear of certain ostracism, ridicule, and disapproval.

 

Although I cannot speak for everyone, I can extrapolate my own experience of it not being a choice to the millions of other gays who share the same similar story and insistence on it not being a choice, and have no doubt that what they are saying is very much in line with my own experience.

 

Was I born this way?

 

I do not know.

 

Every human in very many ways are a product of their conditioning, be it from being raised with sound unconditional love, or unfortunately not the greatest of conditioning, and sadly sometimes abusive.

 

I'd categorize my upbringing as being sound unconditional love where nothing straightforwardly evident ever pointed to steering me to be gay.

 

That's the thing with human behavior though, is that how we all react to conditioning and stimulus can vary, and not necessarily be straightforwardly evident.

 

Some accept stimulus, some reject it. We as humans from the time we are born are exposed to billions upon billions of various stimulus day after day, that little by little shape who we are, and we ourselves and our own reaction to stimulus is too stimulus within itself.

 

It's not always easy to point to one factor alone that establishes us on the course of growing into being who we are, although some things also can be very evident and direct, and can surly be pointed at in stating how one may have become how they were from some certain more prominent conditioning that they experienced in their development.

 

I knew that I was gay before I knew it had a name, but also knew early on that it was discouraged and something I never felt in my development years to the age of 20 that I could discuss with anyone for fear of abandonment and scorn.

 

Although I knew early does not completely convince me that I was born that way. I can't completely rule it out, but I can't completely say so for sure.

 

I'm not completely sure if here on BGP I'm viewed by the things that I have expressed, as indicating that I'm a big flag waving, parade walking gay activist, and while I have nothing against those who are, I personally for the most part just live my life pretty simply and quietly in the real world, not exposing much about myself to anyone but close family and friends.

 

I'm not ashamed of who I am, but I've not made it my life's work to outwardly campaign, but to just in little ways help the people in my life have a better understanding.

 

I personally have a self image (and perhaps I'm in denial) of being just an ordinary everyday looking dude that unless people know about me don't instantly conclude that I am.

 

How I conduct myself to the outside world typically keeps me from experiencing any uncomfortable situations with people who may object.

 

I've even been in situations where people assume that I'm straight while they're voicing a negative opinion about gays and looking to me for approval, and a "I'm with you man" reaction. I've got nothing for them, and I'm not about to start up a debate with a perfect stranger while standing in line at the post office, or wherever.

 

One thing that I've pondered but have failed to mention in my attempts at perhaps helping folks here have a more clear understanding that they might not have had previously, is the subject of "perception" of what it looks like to the outside world to be gay.

 

Of course those gays that stand up for a cause, and those gays that might, for a man be stereotypically feminine, or a woman to be stereotypically masculine, demonstrate to the outside world an image that can many times leave people to believe that they have a firm idea of what a gay person looks like.

 

For those obvious folks, they really can't hide it, so at that point they really have nothing to lose in speaking out for their rights, and being visible. Some may not be so outwardly verbal, but still the fact that they are gay is no surprise to anyone.

 

On the other hand, and I can't possibly know the accurate statistics for this, but for every visible obvious gay person that there is, there are at least one, if not more, not so obvious visible gay people in this world.

 

My own perception honestly would point to thinking that maybe what you see with your eyes is only really a very small portion of the true reality of things.

 

The ones that are not so obvious tend not to make this common knowledge to the outside world as they find it easier to navigate in life minding their own business, and staying behind their straight outward appearance.

 

This might be changing a bit in the modern world with people feeling more free, but there are so many married men and woman that are truly gay in this world that it would startle people if they really knew how many.

 

It's probably no surprise to anyone that with past social criticism that many people, for fear of scorn and abandonment, tried to hide who they really were, and did what was expected of them by either getting married, or perhaps becoming a priest or a nun.

 

It's not that they were trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes exactly, but they typically while in their 20's was just so much full of fear that they felt they had to do something to keep family and friends from wondering.

 

Some, years ago settled for the title of "confirmed bachelor", but with that they never really could escape people's questions of "When are you going to get married?", and even if the question was not asked directly, some would nod their head and think, "Uh Huh...Bob is a "confirmed bachelor" ...wink wink"

 

The perception that the outside world has doesn't even come close to what the true reality is.

 

I wish that I could give hard fast numbers, but from what I can tell there are many more straight looking gay people in this world than there are obvious gay looking gay people in this world.

 

I'd venture to say that there are closeted straight looking gay people in all of your lives that have done a real good job in not making it apparent to you, and only to very a limited amount of others.

 

These people come from all walks of life from the homeless to the CEO of large companies.

 

Many might act on their gayness if life presents that opportunity, while others stay in quiet desperation within their marital closets trying their best to be happy with living their lie, only wishing that they could somehow escape it.

 

One thing is for certain is that a woman who is knowingly or unknowingly married to a gay man really never has to worry about him sleeping with another woman behind her back. Fooling around with another man? Well, that's a different story.

 

In many of those situations, thankfully some of these people's spouses will ultimately just be each others best friends even it they never come to relay the real truth about themselves.

 

Sometimes without having to say anything they already know. Some cross the line and reveal to their spouse the truth and agree to keep it to themselves, while some scenarios don't have such a peaceful result.

 

There are some who live their whole lives doing their best to convince even themselves that they are straight, only to one day find that they can no longer can suppress it, and sometimes to the point that they had themselves so convinced that they were straight that they can only describe it as bells going off because it somehow is a surprise even to themselves as much as it might be to others.

 

In these cases some could just never face it, and especially if it seemed to dramatically conflict with their place in this world. Personally I don't know how anyone could convincingly do this to themselves, but it in fact does happen.

 

Even in today's more open world, you still have people that just don't feel at liberty to just being themselves, and because no one in their lives suspects anything, the idea for them to cross the line, although they might ponder it, can be just as hard and stifling for them as it has been for many closeted gays throughout the not too distant closeted history.

 

No matter how it might be perceived, the internet has offered some super closeted married men an outlet that they might never have had years ago. It might pacify them, but in the spirit of freedom it's just really a band aid to the stifling closet that they are living in.

 

No doubt it's as sad for a straight spouse of a gay spouse to have to face that perhaps much of both of their lives has been a lie. Some manage to work it out and remain together, or at least friends, some do not.

 

I'm not sure if what I presented here about "perception" and the reality that there are tons more gay people in this world than what many might be aware of, or if I'm all wet, and most of you already realized this.

 

I certainly wouldn't want to come across as all knowing, and that I have the perception that all straight people don't have a real clear perception of things.

 

It's just that through life experiences I've seen behind the mask of things that I'm not so certain many have had the chance to, which can sometimes create maybe a limited perception for them from just what they can only see from where they are standing.

 

Although the world seems to be coming around to acceptance, and the topic of gayness is very much out there front and center, whether everyone wants it to be or not.

 

The real deal in my mind is the fact that there is so much behind the curtain, that even in today's world of much exposure, and the real untold story has still never actually been told.