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There is a tape out there from a few years back when the big 6'9 Brossart player elbowed Brian Greene from Highlands right in front of Ref Tom Freppon and no call was made. It was a vicious elbow that had Greene wobbly and had to leave the game. I know that tape was sent to the KHSAA with a special message that Mr. Freppon never do another Highlands game. Not sure if it was intentional or not I simply forget but it was not necessary as it was in the backcourt 80 feet from the goal and it was 5'9 Brian Greene reaching for the ball against a 6'9 280lb kid. I could see if it was a battle under the basket for a rebound but he was simply clearing himself of a bug it seemed like and he appeared frustrated by that bug.

Give it a rest Q. The boar grabbed a rebound and Ryan came from his blindside to try to steal it. Didn't work out to well for Ryan, but Freppon made the right no call. Sorry Big Joe happened to be bigger than Ryan and the elbow caught him in the head.

http://bluegrasspreps.com/ky-boys-basketball/bishop-brossart-68-a-228564.html

Edited December 22, 201411 yr by TAC
Added the link from a few years ago so Q could remember last time it happened

Does Brossart teach their players to bring the ball up ("Chinned") and to keep their elbows out and bring the ball through hard with elbows out? I see them do it with numerous players for years. I do not think they try to intentionally throw elbows at opposing players, but you better not be to close when they bring a ball through their chest from one side to the other. It's the way the game used to be played but surprised they don't get called for it now.

Pretty sure most coaches teach their players to chin the ball. Swing the body not the elbows.

Not implying anything at all. Simply asking a question on what exactly the rule is regarding contact to the face from a misplaced elbow.

 

The call is typically ruled an infraction resulting in a turnover, not a foul if deemed unintentional.

Did the motion look anything like this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz3ErGNKnBU#t=16

Did the motion look anything like this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz3ErGNKnBU#t=16

 

Shouldn't be a foul in that situation. His elbows were not in a "chin the ball" position from what I saw. He held the ball high and turned, inadvertent IMO.

The call is typically ruled an infraction resulting in a turnover, not a foul if deemed unintentional.

 

 

 

I thought the infraction was with no contact.

 

Contact is either a personal foul or an intentional/flagrant. Last night it was called a personal foul.

Edited December 22, 201411 yr by stinkyboy II

Did the motion look anything like this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz3ErGNKnBU#t=16

 

 

No

 

They were face to face - belly to belly.

I am going to assume then that you are going to tell me the defender was called for a foul?

Quite the opposite. The foul was called on Hackworth the aggressor. Ruled properly an offensive foul.

You'll get lots of officials calling it differently. The rule changed a few years ago.

 

The most recent wording I found was from 12/13:

 

 

2. Contact above the shoulders. With a continued emphasis on reducing concussions and decreasing excessive contact situations the committee determined that more guidance is needed for penalizing contact above the shoulders.

 

a. A player shall not swing his/her arm(s) or elbow(s) even without contacting an opponent. Excessive swinging of the elbows occurs when arms and elbows are swung about while using the shoulders as pivots, and the speed of the extended arms and elbows is in excess of the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or on the pivot foot. Currently it is a violation in Rule 9 Section 13 Article.

 

b. Examples of illegal contact above the shoulders and resulting penalties.

1. Contact with a stationary elbow may be incidental or a common foul.

2. An elbow in movement but not excessive should be an intentional foul.

3. A moving elbow that is excessive can be either an intentional foul or flagrant personal foul.

No

 

They were face to face - belly to belly.

 

I meant more in regards to how the elbows moved in relation to the torso.

Based on your examples above it was called incorrectly. Elbows were moving. Should have been an intentional foul

 

 

Noticed the 10th region officials working last nights game looking into the stands, conversing with fans, trying to explain their calls, sometimes even engaging in debate with fans. Is this common in other regions? Rarely does a 9th region official do this.

Based on your examples above it was called incorrectly. Elbows were moving. Should have been an intentional foul

 

 

Noticed the 10th region officials working last nights game looking into the stands, conversing with fans, trying to explain their calls, sometimes even engaging in debate with fans. Is this common in other regions? Rarely does a 9th region official do this.

 

A) They are not "10th Region Officials" - they are members of the Bluegrass Basketball Officials Association which work both the 10th and 11th region games.

 

B) This was an unusual trio, in that Tommy Burns, a former college official, who must now be a member of the BBA worked the game. He does a good job, but was the official who completely missed the obvious traveling call that awarded Zai free-throws. I think he simply didn't see the entire play and only caught the end of it. Gary Wilson is a consumate professional who does his best to be understood, ergo perhaps the perception of being chatty with the fans. The third taller/older official was the weak link. He mis-called the scramble for the loose ball possession on the baseline in front of the student section and awarded it to Highlands. He also called the elbows incident, but I feel he got that one right.

You'll get lots of officials calling it differently. The rule changed a few years ago.

 

The most recent wording I found was from 12/13:

 

 

2b. Examples of illegal contact above the shoulders and resulting penalties.

1. Contact with a stationary elbow may be incidental or a common foul.

2. An elbow in movement but not excessive should be an intentional foul.

3. A moving elbow that is excessive can be either an intentional foul or flagrant personal foul.

 

A) They are not "10th Region Officials" - they are members of the Bluegrass Basketball Officials Association which work both the 10th and 11th region games.

 

B) This was an unusual trio, in that Tommy Burns, a former college official, who must now be a member of the BBA worked the game. He does a good job, but was the official who completely missed the obvious traveling call that awarded Zai free-throws. I think he simply didn't see the entire play and only caught the end of it. Gary Wilson is a consumate professional who does his best to be understood, ergo perhaps the perception of being chatty with the fans. The third taller/older official was the weak link. He mis-called the scramble for the loose ball possession on the baseline in front of the student section and awarded it to Highlands. He also called the elbows incident, but I feel he got that one right.

 

 

So you saw New run into a stationary elbow????