The police militarization discussion has taken place here before. Weapons/equipment do not give them extra powers.

 

Tactics have gotten better. Equipment has gotten better. How many times you seen an MRAP out on Patrol?

 

It doesn't matter how many I see on the streets. What matters is they have them when there is no logical necessity for such a thing at local police department in a city with low crime.

 

Plus, they cost the taxpayers a lot of money.

 

If they're never on the street, as you implied, isn't that wasteful spending?

 

It doesn't matter how many I see on the streets. What matters is they have them when there is no logical necessity for such a thing at local police department in a city with low crime.

 

Plus, they cost the taxpayers a lot of money.

 

If they're never on the street, as you implied, isn't that wasteful spending?

 

They're used for active shooter situations among other things. Regardless, you are taking the conversation a completely different direction.

Evidence obtained by dogs is going the way of polygraph in terms of admissibility. Dogs are too easily influenced by their handlers.

 

Watch it with that around here. It's a whole BGP thread of it's own.

 

I do think others (HB20 I know) have made good points about things being there recently but having since been moved that dogs will still detect as well, though I do agree with your overall sentiment that dogs are influenced by their handlers.

Yes, assuming the police cannot justify probably case, any defense attorney worth a nickle will have all evidence of a crime found in the search thrown out in the trial leaving the prosecutor no case and therefore will most likely drop all charges.

 

And you could still have an arrest on your record, time spent in jail, a mugshot online, etc. despite all of that.

 

Posted this before reading Rockmom's reply, so I'll add, or just not being considered at all either.

 

Also, there are lots of people who, for various reasons, might not have the means to just go through the lengthy fight as well.

Of what? Murder? Can you be arrested for suspicion of having something illegal in your car?

 

Not trying to be a jerk, but it's innocent until proven guilty and when you are arrested, it's technically always on the suspicion of something.

 

I do know what you are saying, but am more inclined to agree with rockmom and say that you could be arrested on suspicion of a lot of things in the way I think she's meaning it.

 

If Officers Liu and Ramos had been patrolling in this (w/bullet proof glass), they couldn't have been killed sitting in their patrol car.

 

If Officers Liu and Ramos had been patrolling in this (w/bullet proof glass), they couldn't have been killed sitting in their patrol car.

 

Now let's not go with a knee jerk reaction that you haven't been happy with on the other side of some of these debates.

You posted a lot of things that are just wrong. Sounds like propaganda straight from "Cop block".

 

Please back up your post with some facts. What has changed in the last few years regarding police powers?

 

More often than not police over step their bounds? Numbers do not support that. Where did you get that from?

 

Police still provide a service. A large part of that is Law Enforcement. They do many other things you don't see in the news though.

 

I think marvel took care of the data points, and the conversation supports my belief. The militarization of police forces has created the systemic change in policing in our society. I have no doubt that a lot of service is in the work, but public perceptions are reality.

 

I don't know about any "propaganda straight from 'Cop Block'", but I do know what my experiences, as well as others, have been. I will qualify that by local experiences.

 

Respect is earned through actions and behaviors, not to be demanded through intimidation and undue leverage.

 

Now let's not go with a knee jerk reaction that you haven't been happy with on the other side of some of these debates.

 

No knee jerk...just pointing out the the vehicles that seen to scare to pants off of liberals and libertarians are 100 times more about officer protection and not about infringing on any ones rights.

 

If these were standard patrol unit (however impractical) officer safety would increase dramatically.

 

I think marvel took care of the data points, and the conversation supports my belief. The militarization of police forces has created the systemic change in policing in our society. I have no doubt that a lot of service is in the work, but public perceptions are reality.

 

I don't know about any "propaganda straight from 'Cop Block'", but I do know what my experiences, as well as others, have been. I will qualify that by local experiences.

 

Respect is earned through actions and behaviors, not to be demanded through intimidation and undue leverage.

 

"Perception is reality" is the biggest crock going. I've heard that for years. Perception isn't reality, its just in many cases a shortsighted way many people look at situations they aren't happy with or don't understand.

 

Perception may tell me the President controls gas prices, that doesn't make it the reality.

 

Respect is earned I agree and that goes both ways.

 

What exactly do you consider militarization of the police? When did it start?

 

Every change in tactics, weapons and equipment was from a lesson written in the blood of dead police officers.

 

I think marvel took care of the data points, and the conversation supports my belief. The militarization of police forces has created the systemic change in policing in our society. I have no doubt that a lot of service is in the work, but public perceptions are reality.

 

I don't know about any "propaganda straight from 'Cop Block'", but I do know what my experiences, as well as others, have been. I will qualify that by local experiences.

 

Respect is earned through actions and behaviors, not to be demanded through intimidation and undue leverage.

 

The police militarization argument is garbage. You wouldn't send a fireman into a fire without the equipment he or she needs would you? Why shouldn't our police have the equipment they need in certain situations?

 

Armored trucks? Banks use them to transport money. Are we militarizing our banks?

 

I have multiple guns including an AR. I could go buy body armor if I wanted it. I could also buy camo. Am I too militarized?

 

Regular patrol officers wear police uniforms. They carry pistols. They drive normal police cruisers. When they are patrolling the streets on a daily basis with AR's, riding around in tanks...something is wrong.

 

Some departments probably got some equipment they didn't need. My guess is things like bayonets were used for honor guards. Either way...make them send them back. I've seen some vehicles some departments probably shouldn't have. These vehicles are slow as dirt...what will they hurt? The armored vehicles are used to save police and possibly civilians in danger from gun fire. I hope to God the police would have all the equipment they need if my family is in need.

 

The police have had big guns and big cars for a long time. Police in most countries have the same, if not more equipment, then the police here.

 

Police also have very few things you could not buy yourself, if you have the money.

The police militarization argument is garbage. You wouldn't send a fireman into a fire without the equipment he or she needs would you? Why shouldn't our police have the equipment they need in certain situations?

 

Armored trucks? Banks use them to transport money. Are we militarizing our banks?

 

I have multiple guns including an AR. I could go buy body armor if I wanted it. I could also buy camo. Am I too militarized?

 

Regular patrol officers wear police uniforms. They carry pistols. They drive normal police cruisers. When they are patrolling the streets on a daily basis with AR's, riding around in tanks...something is wrong.

 

Some departments probably got some equipment they didn't need. My guess is things like bayonets were used for honor guards. Either way...make them send them back. I've seen some vehicles some departments probably shouldn't have. These vehicles are slow as dirt...what will they hurt? The armored vehicles are used to save police and possibly civilians in danger from gun fire. I hope to God the police would have all the equipment they need if my family is in need.

 

The police have had big guns and big cars for a long time. Police in most countries have the same, if not more equipment, then the police here.

 

Police also have very few things you could not buy yourself, if you have the money.

 

I support police as I've shown in many topics recently. But your going to have to get past this idea that militarazation is false. It's a real concern of people on both sides of aisle both Democrat and Republicans. Both pro police and anti police. It has nothing to do with being against individual officers , but the policy of leaders.

 

This topic isn't going away and will be a major topic of discussion moving forward.

No knee jerk...just pointing out the the vehicles that seen to scare to pants off of liberals and libertarians are 100 times more about officer protection and not about infringing on any ones rights.

 

If these were standard patrol unit (however impractical) officer safety would increase dramatically.

 

Police forces should not be armed like our military. Unless Marshall law has been declared I don't see how you can be for it. We can't pick and choose what parts of the constitution to abide by.

Police forces should not be armed like our military. Unless Marshall law has been declared I don't see how you can be for it. We can't pick and choose what parts of the constitution to abide by.

 

Which part of the Constitution is violated by a police officer having a bullet proof vest, an semi automatic pistol, Patrol Rifles, Shotguns, Bullet proof shields, Armored vehicles (which are used to approach armed criminals or retrieve injured people under fire) or Helicopters?

 

Once upon a time...

First FBI Agents weren't issued guns...some died as a result

Police Officers once carried Revolvers only and were outgunned by semi-autos...some died as a result

Police Officers weren't issued Rifles and were outgunned in shootouts...some died as a result

Police Officers didn't have armored vehicles to retrieve injured people...some died as a result

Police Officers and Tax Payers once thought bullet resistant vest were an extravagance...again some died without them as a result

 

So I'll ask again old friend, what part of the Constitution is being violated by giving police officers equipment with which to protect themselves?

 

We ask police officer to do an almost impossible job for society but you expect them to do that job without all of the protection that is necessary to complete that job.

Which part of the Constitution is violated by a police officer having a bullet proof vest, an semi automatic pistol, Patrol Rifles, Shotguns, Bullet proof shields, Armored vehicles (which are used to approach armed criminals or retrieve injured people under fire) or Helicopters?

 

Once upon a time...

First FBI Agents weren't issued guns...some died as a result

Police Officers once carried Revolvers only and were outgunned by semi-autos...some died as a result

Police Officers weren't issued Rifles and were outgunned in shootouts...some died as a result

Police Officers didn't have armored vehicles to retrieve injured people...some died as a result

Police Officers and Tax Payers once thought bullet resistant vest were an extravagance...again some died without them as a result

 

So I'll ask again old friend, what part of the Constitution is being violated by giving police officers equipment with which to protect themselves?

 

We ask police officer to do an almost impossible job for society but you expect them to do that job without all of the protection that is necessary to complete that job.

 

Most the things you listed I'm fine with. I've listed my main concern a million times. That is the over use of swat teams and no knock warrants for non violent crimes.

 

I could list 100 cases of how it's been misused in seconds and I no it won't sway you. Still doesn't change the fact it's a major concern for millions of Americans who are pro police.