Forgetting the logistics of tracking and administration, what do our resident BGP soccer experts think about a cumulative yellow card rule as a means of reducing dirty play in high school games?

 

I have a friend who is a very good soccer ref, both doing high level club games and high school games, and he believes that a cumulative yellow card rule would really help the high school game.

I would say that the concept is a good one and merits consideration, my biggest concern is the inconsistency that you see from one ref to another.

I would say that the concept is a good one and merits consideration, my biggest concern is the inconsistency that you see from one ref to another.

 

Is there a cumulation rule for Technical Fouls in basketball?

I would say that the concept is a good one and merits consideration, my biggest concern is the inconsistency that you see from one ref to another.

 

The inconsistency is why I don't think it's a good idea.

Is there a cumulation rule for Technical Fouls in basketball?

 

I am not sure what Technical Fouls in basketball has to do with this... but yes there is in the NBA.

I agree with the inconsistant ref argument......Some ref's use it as a tool more than others...... I can think of several other refs that would have given 3 or 4 cards out during the CCH/St H game.....not that either way was right or wrong, just showing the different styles.

I am not sure what Technical Fouls in basketball has to do with this... but yes there is in the NBA.

 

I meant in high school basketball. If there is, then you can use the same tracking/administrative system to keep track of yellows. As for inconsistent refs, if you get, say, 4 yellow cards in 7 games hypothetically, the issue isn't the inconsistency of the refs. It is in the player's game. Now, if you limit it to like 2 cards in 5 games, then yes, inconsistency would affect how well this rule would be received.

What about having another tier of cards? I would love to see something that eliminates refs stopping the action, calling players out and giving them a two arm warning........could their be a yellow for this, a pink for more serious then a red for really bad...

IMO it's a good idea. At the same time, I'd reduce the penalty for a second yellow in a single game to a one-game suspension, rather than the two-game suspension where it currently sits. I'm OK with a straight red remaining a 2-game suspension.

 

If it is set at 5 accumulated yellows = a one-game suspension, then it actually helps with consistency, because the five yellows are accumulated over multiple games and presumably different referees.

 

As it stands now, a second yellow accumulated in one game with one center ref sits you for 2 games. So one game that is either particularly contentious, called very tight, or that a ref tries to bring back into control using cards can result in a harsh outcome for the kid who happens to be committing the cardable offense at the wrong (right?) moment in the game. I think some refs understand the potential harsh effect as well and are sometimes reluctant to give a second yellow knowing it'll sit a boy for the next two games.

 

The converse is that players who know how to play in control carrying a yellow in a game can regularly use their "one free" yellow with impunity. The accumulated yellow card rule takes away this incentive.

 

Note: I'd clear the accumulated yellow cards for post-season play. Otherwise you may get a player sitting on 4 accumulated yellows the first week of October looking to pick up his 5th card so that he doesn't enter the post-season with that hanging over his head.

I would be in favor of this as I agree, it would cut down on the hack plays we see way too often in high school games, but only if implemented for serious, physical fouls. Players get yellow cards for dissent, delaying play, intentional handling.........stuff that does not affect player safety. If it could be done so that yellow cards resulting from player safety fouls could be tracked then I'd be in favor of it. Yes, it is inconsistent, but that comes with officiating.

Does a red, or two yellows in a game reset the yellow counter?

Does a red, or two yellows in a game reset the yellow counter?

 

It doesn't in the leagues that use accumulated yellows. But that's partly why the second yellow penalty needs to be dropped to a one-game suspension. As far as red cards go, they aren't tracked as an accumulated yellow (they are red).

Forgetting the logistics of tracking and administration, what do our resident BGP soccer experts think about a cumulative yellow card rule as a means of reducing dirty play in high school games?

 

I have a friend who is a very good soccer ref, both doing high level club games and high school games, and he believes that a cumulative yellow card rule would really help the high school game.

 

I do not want to see a cumulative yellow card rule in high school soccer. Let me state up front that I do not consider myself a "BGP soccer expert" so perhaps I should not speak. However...

 

After watching my first full season of varsity soccer last year, I consider the refereeing in soccer to be way too inconsistent to pull this off in a fair manner. I mean it is inconsistent in the same game by the same official. Oldbbird says he has a friend who is a "very good soccer ref." He is a rare bird. Most sports you can learn the rules by paying attention to the calls made by the officials. This is not the case in high school soccer. I have seen a textbook slide tackle receive a yellow card. Why can a player be tripped from behind without penalty on one hand and a few minutes later a trip from behind draws a call? IMO, high school soccer is the worst officiated sport I have observed.

 

I appreciate Oldbirds concern over dirty play but I think there is a better way to reduce its occurrence. What I have observed is that inconsistent officiating often contributes to the "dirty play." Here's how it works. An official makes a no-call on when there is an obvious offense. Then he makes a bad call on another play. One team seems to get away with rough play while the other team is penalized. The players tolerate this for a short time. But as they sense they are getting a raw deal they begin to try to even out the playing field and so they begin to get chippy. This escalates until the teams are trading hard tackles and bumps, and elbows and pushing. I am not saying the reaction of the players is right, but it is what happens. Then the ref finally steps in and drags out his yellow card and gives the player a stern talking-to to boot. BUt to be honest, the ref has created the whole situation by his poor officiating which is perceived as unjust by the players.

 

I believe that the KY State athletic association needs to do a better job of training referees for high school soccer. As it stands, there is a wide range of quality. It doesn't matter whether you are in Central KY, Louisville, Hardin County, or all around NKY. I have been to all of them and there is a common theme of poor officiating in soccer. The quality of the official in the middle of the field makes the biggest difference.

 

If you want to institute an accumulative yellow card rule then officiating needs to improve greatly or there needs to be a way to review the plays resulting in yellow cards so that a boy who does a perfect slide tackle isn't penalized permanently by a bad call made by the official. This just isn't practical so no new rule, please.

 

How's that for my first post? :ohbrother:

I do not want to see a cumulative yellow card rule in high school soccer. Let me state up front that I do not consider myself a "BGP soccer expert" so perhaps I should not speak. However...

 

After watching my first full season of varsity soccer last year, I consider the refereeing in soccer to be way too inconsistent to pull this off in a fair manner. I mean it is inconsistent in the same game by the same official. Oldbbird says he has a friend who is a "very good soccer ref." He is a rare bird. Most sports you can learn the rules by paying attention to the calls made by the officials. This is not the case in high school soccer. I have seen a textbook slide tackle receive a yellow card. Why can a player be tripped from behind without penalty on one hand and a few minutes later a trip from behind draws a call? IMO, high school soccer is the worst officiated sport I have observed.

 

I appreciate Oldbirds concern over dirty play but I think there is a better way to reduce its occurrence. What I have observed is that inconsistent officiating often contributes to the "dirty play." Here's how it works. An official makes a no-call on when there is an obvious offense. Then he makes a bad call on another play. One team seems to get away with rough play while the other team is penalized. The players tolerate this for a short time. But as they sense they are getting a raw deal they begin to try to even out the playing field and so they begin to get chippy. This escalates until the teams are trading hard tackles and bumps, and elbows and pushing. I am not saying the reaction of the players is right, but it is what happens. Then the ref finally steps in and drags out his yellow card and gives the player a stern talking-to to boot. BUt to be honest, the ref has created the whole situation by his poor officiating which is perceived as unjust by the players.

 

I believe that the KY State athletic association needs to do a better job of training referees for high school soccer. As it stands, there is a wide range of quality. It doesn't matter whether you are in Central KY, Louisville, Hardin County, or all around NKY. I have been to all of them and there is a common theme of poor officiating in soccer. The quality of the official in the middle of the field makes the biggest difference.

 

If you want to institute an accumulative yellow card rule then officiating needs to improve greatly or there needs to be a way to review the plays resulting in yellow cards so that a boy who does a perfect slide tackle isn't penalized permanently by a bad call made by the official. This just isn't practical so no new rule, please.

 

How's that for my first post? :ohbrother:

 

I think you, as well as the majority of people that have posted here are off base. I think the referees are good for the most part. The fans are the ones that I don't think understand. Frankly after listening to some of the comments, they wouldn't know a well officiated match from hole in the ground.

 

Second issue is that the teams are very inconsistent as well. Its pretty easy to call a good game when all the teams are of the same relative skill like in the premier league or at the state cup club level.

 

Thirdly, I do believe that cumulative cautions would help but we are getting way to complicated here. One caution is the same as the others. They are all because someone was either stupid or lost their temper, sometimes both.

 

Lastly, two cautions should have the same penalty as all other send offs. If you are not able to control yourself enough to avoid a second caution you are just as foolish as the player that loses their head and commits a foul denying a goal scoring opportunity. They are all send offs.

 

Just my opinion.

I am not sure how you can say that the majority of the people who have posted comments on this are off base, the inconsistency issue seems to be the common theme. I will tell you from my point of view that it is not a lack of understanding, at the risk of speaking for others... I do not see this as the issue for them either. It they do not understand, I would place some of this on the officiating, I cannot tell you how many times I have heard things like; "why is that a foul, it wasn't a few minutes ago" or "why did they call that on us, when they did not call it on them".

 

A few people have said that the majority of the issue, and confussion, that occurs in HS matches is that the calls are inconsistent. By this, I mean within the same match, from the same ref, not just from game to game.

 

I will say that I have seen some well officiated games by some quality officials... but this is definitely not the norm.