Thoroughly confused as to what should have happened in this situation. I do know there was an umpire error, which the guy admitted, but I think they erred again after that.

 

Bases loaded. 2 outs. 2-2 count. Breaking ball in the dirt. Check swing that bounces away from the catcher. Catcher appeals to first on the check swing. 1B umpire gives the 'strike' sign. Batter takes off for first base realizing it is the dropped third strike. All other runners are moving also. Umpire, seeing the 1B umpire give him the strike signal, announces "BATTER IS OUT" (this is where he erred). Catcher, who had retrieved the ball and had it cocked back ready to throw, hears the umpire, and doesn't throw down to first. Fielding team in the runs off the field.

 

Batting team's manager storms onto the field and insist that it should have been a live ball (he is correct, I believe). Umpires reconvene, decide that the batting team's manager was correct, and tell fielding team's manager his team needs to go back on the field, the runner is safe at first because the catcher didn't throw down, and that the run counts. Fielding team's fans go nuts, as they (correctly) said the catcher had a play on the throw down to first, but didn't throw it because the umpire proclaimed the batter out. Coach argued to no avail.

 

Ended up being a big play as they scored 2 more runs after this happened, and that K would've ended the inning.

 

Can someone that knows more than I about umpiring tell me what SHOULD have happened? Something doesn't seem right. When the umpire says you're out, aren't you out regardless?

No clue on this one. Where did this happen?

1) Why was the catcher going to throw to first? Why didn't he just step on the plate?

2) It's an improper call on the umpire's behalf and the runner is able to run to first. Catcher should've completed the play.

My understanding of the rule was that if first base is occupied by a base runner if and when a swung strike three occurs and ball is not caught by the catcher it's an out and the batter cannot advance to first. I've seen this called as such in summer ball.

My understanding of the rule was that if first base is occupied by a base runner if and when a swung strike three occurs and ball is not caught by the catcher it's an out and the batter cannot advance to first. I've seen this called as such in summer ball.

 

Not if there are 2 outs.

My understanding of the rule was that if first base is occupied by a base runner if and when a swung strike three occurs and ball is not caught by the catcher it's an out and the batter cannot advance to first. I've seen this called as such in summer ball.

 

I think that's usually the case with 0 or 1 out. But, with 2 outs, a play needs to be made. Most teams just tell their catcher to step on the plate, and the force out at home takes care of the 3rd out.

1) Why was the catcher going to throw to first? Why didn't he just step on the plate?

 

The 3rd base coach (Manager) had the runner on third break for the plate as soon as the ball bounced away. The batter, however, held up, because he didn't think he went. The only play was to first.

What I'm basically hearing, is that the umpire declaring the batter out has no meaning whatsoever.

The 3rd base coach (Manager) had the runner on third break for the plate as soon as the ball bounced away. The batter, however, held up, because he didn't think he went. The only play was to first.

 

Seems like a gamble on the manager's part that he's assuming his batter went. If his batter didn't he's sending the runner right into a force play.

 

And if the only play was to first, the catcher should have thrown it. You should never listen to umpires anyhow...

What I'm basically hearing, is that the umpire declaring the batter out has no meaning whatsoever.

 

Improper call. Nothing can be done about it.

What I'm basically hearing' date=' is that the umpire declaring the batter out has no meaning whatsoever.[/quote']

 

Obviously an unfortunate situation.

 

Pretty sure the casebook would say the runner was safe.

 

It is just like if blue forgets to call infield fly. Players are still expected to know the rule.

Had a similar situation happen in my son's Knothole game a week ago. Bases loaded, but only 1 out. Batter strikes out, catcher drops the ball right in front of him...picks up the ball and steps on home plate, as the runner from 3rd started coming home. Umpire yells "out", and catcher proceeds to throw ball to first base, beating the batter. Defensive team feels they've gotten a double play and exit the field. Umpire says that there's only two outs and that a run scored (runner who was on third, did come all the way in and touch home eventually).

 

So, the already-discussed rule was gone over. Defensive team said it should have been a dead ball, if the batter was automatically out. Ump said "no, live ball, and runners advance at their own will". The only thing the ump did wrong, in my opinion, is not stating WHO was out, at the very beginning of the play. If he had said "Batter's out", that could've helped.

Seems like a gamble on the manager's part that he's assuming his batter went. If his batter didn't he's sending the runner right into a force play.

And if the only play was to first, the catcher should have thrown it. You should never listen to umpires anyhow...

 

It was essentially a wild pitch. Had the runner not swung, the run would have scored anyways. He was going to send him regardless.

Had a similar situation happen in my son's Knothole game a week ago. Bases loaded, but only 1 out. Batter strikes out, catcher drops the ball right in front of him...picks up the ball and steps on home plate, as the runner from 3rd started coming home. Umpire yells "out", and catcher proceeds to throw ball to first base, beating the batter. Defensive team feels they've gotten a double play and exit the field. Umpire says that there's only two outs and that a run scored (runner who was on third, did come all the way in and touch home eventually).

 

So, the already-discussed rule was gone over. Defensive team said it should have been a dead ball, if the batter was automatically out. Ump said "no, live ball, and runners advance at their own will". The only thing the ump did wrong, in my opinion, is not stating WHO was out, at the very beginning of the play. If he had said "Batter's out", that could've helped.

 

Maybe he should have stated that the batter was out but how old are the kids in the knothole game? I'd feel like most players by a certain age should know that the batter is out at home regardless on a drop third strike when 1st base is occupied (except if there are 2 outs) and should know better. At least thats IMO.

Maybe he should have stated that the batter was out but how old are the kids in the knothole game? I'd feel like most players by a certain age should know that the batter is out at home regardless on a drop third strike when 1st base is occupied (except if there are 2 outs) and should know better. At least thats IMO.

 

11 year olds...with a lot of them having played only 1 or 2 years. Most of the time, you hear "on a dropped third strike, hustle down to first".