In the sixth inning of the Dixie vs Boone Co. game, Dixie's catcher was thrown out at 2nd on a steal attempt. Very close call with the umpire calling the runner out with one motion, and instantaneously giving a 2nd motion with what all of the fans thought was an ejection. Problem under KHSAA rules brings an additional two game suspension, meaning whatever the young man reflexively uttered and no one could probably hear other than the umpire and 2nd baseman would be so punitively punished. A terrible disservice to all participants. For those not there, the young man did not embarrass the umpire, attempt to show anyone up, act disrespectful, or argue. Whatever he uttered was instantaneous with the out call. If the ump had simply walked away, the whole event would have probably been bang-bang, great play, over and out.

 

After the game, we learn from BP that the player was not ejected, but restricted and he would be eligible to play further in the tournament. After much research and dialogue there is no Restricted Rule for players conduct versus ejection. Perhaps there should be and the made up ruling by the ump to save the players eligibility in the tournament served the greater good, for the young man and his teammates. The restricted rule in Ky High School baseball is for coaches as their ejection brings three games and potential monetary fines out of their personnel pockets. The restricted discretion option for umps allows face saving for everyone while they can get coaches attention for whatever transgression.

In the sixth inning of the Dixie vs Boone Co. game, Dixie's catcher was thrown out at 2nd on a steal attempt. Very close call with the umpire calling the runner out with one motion, and instantaneously giving a 2nd motion with what all of the fans thought was an ejection. Problem under KHSAA rules brings an additional two game suspension, meaning whatever the young man reflexively uttered and no one could probably hear other than the umpire and 2nd baseman would be so punitively punished. A terrible disservice to all participants. For those not there, the young man did not embarrass the umpire, attempt to show anyone up, act disrespectful, or argue. Whatever he uttered was instantaneous with the out call. If the ump had simply walked away, the whole event would have probably been bang-bang, great play, over and out.

 

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How do you know what the player said? If he quietly dropped the F-bomb as an adjective describing his thoughts on the call are you saying since no only a few heard it that he should have not been ejected?

Having been around the game for 50+ years! it is the rare time that bad language that is not directed personally at an umpire becomes an issue in a baseball game. As long as there is no direct confrontation, 99% of the time the experienced ump turns a deaf ear and the game goes on. The punitive penalty for re-actively dropping the wrong word being immediate ejection from the game, plus the next two seems grossly out of bounds. I suspect that is why the ump in this case recognized the over severity of what just happened and made up the restriction rule, which I am sure if not then, then now he recognizes the faux pas.

 

The point of this thread is to point out that ...."we should have a restriction rule for high school players, just like we do for coaches". In basketball, we call it a technical foul. And, it has to escalate pretty far before ejection and automatic suspension. In baseball, restriction to the dugout and no further participation in that game seems pretty strong, but not as punitive as the rules now dictate.

Where is the rule that speaks about the restriction rule for coaches?

Great question! After much research the only place "restriction could be found" was on the NFHS rules to which all 50 states follow. There is a chart that compares high school rules to pros, and it points out two examples of coaches (both conduct related) could be restricted to the dugout in high school, just short of being ejected. The pros have nothing similar. I then went to a couple of high school umps that both confirmed there is no restriction rule for players, and both indicated umps strongly believe there should be.

 

In 2011, the KHSAA expanded the penalties on coaches and players for ejection in all sports. In soccer they have a yellow card, in baseball we have ejection. In basketball we have a technical foul, in baseball we have ejection. IMO I feel the KHSAA missed out, in not having a restriction rule in baseball. Wish some umps might offer their thoughts.

There is a restriction rule for players and it comes from the khsaa. If you knew what was said TO THE Umpire you might agree with him. Hard to believe an Umpire from Northern KY would say there is no restriction rule.

Please site the rule from KHSAA. After much research on their site, I gave up thinking it did not exist. Then had two highly credentialed umps verify it did not. Has even been discussed in association meetings that it needs to exist because of the disastrous ramifications of a verbal utterance in baseball that would draw nothing but a technical in basketball, or a yellow card in soccer. Furthermore all 50 states high school athletic associations follow the NFHS rules. If you go to their site, you will plainly see how high school rules differ from pros, and the restriction difference is cited for coaches. We all know major league players are not restricted to the dugout.

I agree with Oldercoach, could someone please find a rule in the NFHS book or the KHSAA bylaws that sites the player restriction rule. I have never heard of it, or read it, and have read both. Until I can read it and see that i am wrong I think it is a crime that umpires are allowed to create their own rules, for the situation. Regardless, they are only suppose to follow the rules in the book. The Dixie boy probably shouldn't have been tossed, I have no idea wasn't there, but don't make up rules to cover your butt.

After much extended research and conversation with many baseball people smarter and better connected than me, it has IMO become conclusively clear that there is no "restriction rule regarding conduct" for a baseball player in Ky. This is a gross oversight by the KHSAA and NHSF, and a tremendous inequity for baseball players versus participants in other sports (technical in basketball, yellow-card in soccer, etc.). What say you BP members?

Lots of excuse making in this thread. The kid would have learned a valuable lesson in self control (as would every single one of his teammates) had he been suspended.

Lots of excuse making in this thread. The kid would have learned a valuable lesson in self control (as would every single one of his teammates) had he been suspended.

 

You are correct, but IMO, a little harsh. The penalty doesn't fit the crime, and that is the intent of this thread.

The problem I have tried to address is the disparity of how we treat baseball players versus other high school athletes. I have no idea what the young man might have reflexively uttered. It was a bang-bang play with just as rapid call of out and almost in the same motion ejection. The young man stood up from his slide, did not confront the umpire, argue, or attempt to embarrass him. Whatever was reflexively uttered could have been ignored by the ump (that is what professional umps are taught until it perpetuates and escalates). Now I am not attacking the ump at all, he made an instantaneous call and the ejection was just as quickly made. Having thought of what just happened the ejection was lightened to the phantom "restriction rule" which does need to be adopted by the KHSAA.

 

If this had been a basketball offense, there would have been a technical. Had it been football, an unsportsmanlike conduct flag would have been thrown. In soccer a yellow card would have been issued. In baseball the rules call for ejection which follows with a mandatory two game suspension. How can one argue any equitable treatment for the same violation? The ramifications could have far exceeded appropriate disciplinary action. Fortunately in this instance our No. Ky. Umpires acted for the greater good of the game.

 

Anybody else have any thoughts on this?

You are correct, but IMO, a little harsh. The penalty doesn't fit the crime, and that is the intent of this thread.

The problem I have tried to address is the disparity of how we treat baseball players versus other high school athletes. I have no idea what the young man might have reflexively uttered. It was a bang-bang play with just as rapid call of out and almost in the same motion ejection. The young man stood up from his slide, did not confront the umpire, argue, or attempt to embarrass him. Whatever was reflexively uttered could have been ignored by the ump (that is what professional umps are taught until it perpetuates and escalates). Now I am not attacking the ump at all, he made an instantaneous call and the ejection was just as quickly made. Having thought of what just happened the ejection was lightened to the phantom "restriction rule" which does need to be adopted by the KHSAA.

 

If this had been a basketball offense, there would have been a technical. Had it been football, an unsportsmanlike conduct flag would have been thrown. In soccer a yellow card would have been issued. In baseball the rules call for ejection which follows with a mandatory two game suspension. How can one argue any equitable treatment for the same violation? The ramifications could have far exceeded appropriate disciplinary action. Fortunately in this instance our No. Ky. Umpires acted for the greater good of the game.

 

Anybody else have any thoughts on this?

 

 

You do not know what was said so you cannot judge the umpire's response.

You are correct, but IMO, a little harsh. The penalty doesn't fit the crime, and that is the intent of this thread.

The problem I have tried to address is the disparity of how we treat baseball players versus other high school athletes. I have no idea what the young man might have reflexively uttered. It was a bang-bang play with just as rapid call of out and almost in the same motion ejection. The young man stood up from his slide, did not confront the umpire, argue, or attempt to embarrass him. Whatever was reflexively uttered could have been ignored by the ump (that is what professional umps are taught until it perpetuates and escalates). Now I am not attacking the ump at all, he made an instantaneous call and the ejection was just as quickly made. Having thought of what just happened the ejection was lightened to the phantom "restriction rule" which does need to be adopted by the KHSAA.

 

If this had been a basketball offense, there would have been a technical. Had it been football, an unsportsmanlike conduct flag would have been thrown. In soccer a yellow card would have been issued. In baseball the rules call for ejection which follows with a mandatory two game suspension. How can one argue any equitable treatment for the same violation? The ramifications could have far exceeded appropriate disciplinary action. Fortunately in this instance our No. Ky. Umpires acted for the greater good of the game.

 

Anybody else have any thoughts on this?

 

As Clyde said, you don't know what was said to even judge whether an ejection was appropriate or not.

 

You keep making excuses by using the phrases like "reflexively uttered", which doesn't matter at all. Self-control is exhibited by how you respond in sitautions just like this. This young man and the entire Dixie team (including Coach Maxwell who I like) would have learned a valuable lesson had he been ejected and not allowed to play.

 

As far as, the punishment being unequal as far as sports, that is probably true; however, you couldn't be more wrong in regards to one of the sports you are comparing it to. I think soccer far and away accounts for the most ejections, the most missed games, etc. Obviously we don't know what was said here to compare what the penalty would have been in soccer, but soccer refs have less of a tolerance for poor behavior than any other sport. I prefer refs to hold kids to highest of standards - it is a good life lesson.

Not going to wade into the deep end on this, but the only thing that I think Oldercoach is trying to point out, is that there's no "middle ground" with baseball. Umpires either let everything slide...or....you eject the kid and have him serve a two game suspension. That's it. Those are the only two choices. With the other sports, the officials have a way of enforcing a "teachable moment" without having the kid necessarily exit the game (and future games). At least that's what I'm getting out of all of this.

So is there a rule or not?