Remember sometimes the threat of the pass is better than passing.

I look at it completely opposite of what you said. I feel that passing is the preferred offense at every level, but you have to have an effective run game to win. I know it's the NFL, but the Patriots, during their dominance, were the most effective run offense in the NFL. Everyone in the NFL can, and does, pass, but the great teams have a great running game.

 

I think High School is the same. Most teams, at least the good teams, pass the ball, but they win by running the ball.

 

I agree Ram. That 90' Ashland team and other Ashland teams in the past that were under Herb Conley (60's, 70's) would pound the ball, spread things out with the option and then pass, go play action and throw the ball downfield w/ not as much WR screens, etc.. A team had to come up to respect the run an when they did that opened up the play action passing game part of the bone.

A side note about legendary Ashland coach Herb Conley. A good friend of mine both played and coached under Conley. He was a RB on the 67' Ashland State Championship team. He told me that Herb had at one time went to coaching clinics of Barry Switzer (Ok. Sooner nc coach), got to know him then went back and spent time (the summer months) with Switzer one year studying, learning the wishbone offense inside and out with the philosophy and teaching methods. So, my friend learned the offense pretty well himself. I realize that may have been tmi and not needed but whenever I here talk or read a thread on the option type offenses it interest me.

I see your point. I think because my Friday nights are spent watching Mountain football where the Bone and Power I are so often the only tactics coaches use - and I might add often passing less than 10 times a game sometimes far less - my perspective is different. Mountain teams have becomes so reliant upon "smash mouth" football that they neglect the most powerful weapon in the sport - the forward pass.

 

Therefore when I see any defense of this archaic approach to football my reflex is to deconstruct the argument for it. I ran the bone as a coach because I did not understand coverages, weaknesses, combo routes, etc. My QB's were never great throwers but they could run. And I think that is what happens in so many teams today that get stuck running the ball 80 or 90 percent of the time. The coaches simply do not have the the talent, knowledge, or expertise to craft a passing offense that exploits defenses.

I see your point. I think because my Friday nights are spent watching Mountain football where the Bone and Power I are so often the only tactics coaches use - and I might add often passing less than 10 times a game sometimes far less - my perspective is different. Mountain teams have becomes so reliant upon "smash mouth" football that they neglect the most powerful weapon in the sport - the forward pass.

 

Therefore when I see any defense of this archaic approach to football my reflex is to deconstruct the argument for it. I ran the bone as a coach because I did not understand coverages, weaknesses, combo routes, etc. My QB's were never great throwers but they could run. And I think that is what happens in so many teams today that get stuck running the ball 80 or 90 percent of the time. The coaches simply do not have the the talent, knowledge, or expertise to craft a passing offense that exploits defenses.

 

I can understand, before Raceland coach Randy Vanderhoof became head coach at Raceland and especially in the 70's and 80's here it was a shock to everyone if Raceland threw the ball. Power I, Wing T, wishbone under Coach Heck I the 70's. Coach Ross in the 80's ran the power wishbone (not as much option used in it). Vanderhoof was an asst. under Ross an ran "the bone" for a couple of years then went to the "Air Raid" offense of H. Mumme/ T. Franklin. The first game with that offense Raceland threw the ball around 40-50 times , probably more than they had thrown it in 5 years before Vanderhoof total and maybe more than an entire decade at Raceland in the 70's, lol.

I see your point. I think because my Friday nights are spent watching Mountain football where the Bone and Power I are so often the only tactics coaches use - and I might add often passing less than 10 times a game sometimes far less - my perspective is different. Mountain teams have becomes so reliant upon "smash mouth" football that they neglect the most powerful weapon in the sport - the forward pass.

 

Therefore when I see any defense of this archaic approach to football my reflex is to deconstruct the argument for it. I ran the bone as a coach because I did not understand coverages, weaknesses, combo routes, etc. My QB's were never great throwers but they could run. And I think that is what happens in so many teams today that get stuck running the ball 80 or 90 percent of the time. The coaches simply do not have the the talent, knowledge, or expertise to craft a passing offense that exploits defenses.

I can see where your thought process is coming from, and justifiably so. Like oldrambler said, Raceland used to be a 90/10 team run/pass, then for a few years we were 20/80 run/pass, but after we found some balance, the offense became a lot more potent. Now we are probably 60/40 or 70/30.

 

The simple fact I have come to believe is, too much of anything is not good. You have to have a balanced attack, you can be a little run heavy, or a little pass heavy, but in the end you have to be able to do both.

 

The simple fact I have come to believe is, too much of anything is not good.

 

Well......not anything. :sssh:

I am pretty sure that Homer Rice, former Highlands HC, started the triple option in football in the 1950's.

 

Old thread link....http://bluegrasspreps.com/ky-football-high/homer-rice-triple-214693.html

 

In Rice's own book he gives credit to Bill Yeoman coming up with the triple or at the least they coming up with the ideas around the same time. I go into a longer explanation in the thread that is linked.

 

While I agree the Bone and other option based offenses are still in use in various ways there is a huge point that is being overlooked here. Passing dominates football today. Yes - you have to run it effectively but without a passing attack that is potent teams simply load the box and clog you up. Sure, if you are athletically superior you can 3 yards and a cloud of dust your way to yardage. But too many teams in KY still live and die by the run and only use the pass as the "surprise" or "bomb". Pass completion rates in great programs have increased as teams have realized getting the ball "in space" is the key to consistent drives. Option football will always work but it will never win championships vs teams who can pass and run effectively. And if I had to choose one - I'd take that passing attack all day.

 

That is how you score early and often.

 

Ask Trinity what they thought of that option offense. There are a number of really common but incorrect aspects of the game people that people get wrong. the whole "You've got to spread them out so you can run" or "You can't run against 9 men in the box" are two big ones. When an offense spreads out it in facts compresses the defense and creates less running lanes. There are less gaps for the defense to defend. Now a double tight end double wing team on the other hand has created 10 gaps for a defense to defend. So the defense has to defend 10 gaps plus 4 immediate receiving threats and they just don't have the numbers to do it. I'm not going to let a defense tell me I can't run my play just because they have 9 in some type of box. I'm not running at 9 of them I am running at about half of them and maybe less. Also those that I am running at better prove they can take on blocks and tackle. A defense feels completely different when a ball is being shoved down their throat in comparison to getting screened and chucked to death.

 

I played in an offense that did run triple option. My HS HC was one of the more well know triple option guys in the state during the 70s-early 90s. We ran outside veer (which is one of the greatest football plays every created). One of the big reasons teams run less of it now is because of the amount of reps it takes to get good at the triple option from under center. It is a tough offense to coach and people just don't know how to coach it. It works just fine. A number of teams have done extremely well in Oh running flexbone. John Curtis has 20+ state titles running split back veer. So do those boys up in Concord, CA. If you are a true option team then you can score and score fast because one screw up and its to the house. You also don't want to blitz a true option team too much.

 

Now move the option to the gun and the read is further away. You can vary the action that goes with the read and use different blocking schemes. Zone, Power, Veer, Counter Trey, Midline. Inverted veer, read the backside DE, the nose, or the DT. Most gun teams are not running triple but just a give keep read. The downside is you can be a little sloppy in the gun just like many shotgun QB have sloppy footwork.

 

Tony Franklin will tell you to screw balance. To live in a extreme because it allows you to get real good at a small amount of things. there is a lot of truth to that. You just have to have an answer in some form to how a defense adjusts or attacks you. You don't need a ton of answers but an answer.

Tony Franklin will tell you to screw balance. To live in a extreme because it allows you to get real good at a small amount of things. there is a lot of truth to that. You just have to have an answer in some form to how a defense adjusts or attacks you. You don't need a ton of answers but an answer.

In reality, isn't Franklin's offense an option? There are multiple receivers, running various routes from screens to down and outs to go routes, the QB has the "option" of throwing to whom ever the defense gives him. Sure, some of the plays are designs screens but many have multiple "options".

 

The funny thing is, when we went to the Franklin system, people would say Raceland was a "passing team", I always countered that comment by saying, "we are a running team, we just pitch it a little further", due to the fact that most of the passes were around 10-20 yard competitions.

In Rice's own book he gives credit to Bill Yeoman coming up with the triple or at the least they coming up with the ideas around the same time. I go into a longer explanation in the thread that is linked.

 

 

 

Ask Trinity what they thought of that option offense. There are a number of really common but incorrect aspects of the game people that people get wrong. the whole "You've got to spread them out so you can run" or "You can't run against 9 men in the box" are two big ones. When an offense spreads out it in facts compresses the defense and creates less running lanes. There are less gaps for the defense to defend. Now a double tight end double wing team on the other hand has created 10 gaps for a defense to defend. So the defense has to defend 10 gaps plus 4 immediate receiving threats and they just don't have the numbers to do it. I'm not going to let a defense tell me I can't run my play just because they have 9 in some type of box. I'm not running at 9 of them I am running at about half of them and maybe less. Also those that I am running at better prove they can take on blocks and tackle. A defense feels completely different when a ball is being shoved down their throat in comparison to getting screened and chucked to death.

 

I played in an offense that did run triple option. My HS HC was one of the more well know triple option guys in the state during the 70s-early 90s. We ran outside veer (which is one of the greatest football plays every created). One of the big reasons teams run less of it now is because of the amount of reps it takes to get good at the triple option from under center. It is a tough offense to coach and people just don't know how to coach it. It works just fine. A number of teams have done extremely well in Oh running flexbone. John Curtis has 20+ state titles running split back veer. So do those boys up in Concord, CA. If you are a true option team then you can score and score fast because one screw up and its to the house. You also don't want to blitz a true option team too much.

 

Now move the option to the gun and the read is further away. You can vary the action that goes with the read and use different blocking schemes. Zone, Power, Veer, Counter Trey, Midline. Inverted veer, read the backside DE, the nose, or the DT. Most gun teams are not running triple but just a give keep read. The downside is you can be a little sloppy in the gun just like many shotgun QB have sloppy footwork.

 

Tony Franklin will tell you to screw balance. To live in a extreme because it allows you to get real good at a small amount of things. there is a lot of truth to that. You just have to have an answer in some form to how a defense adjusts or attacks you. You don't need a ton of answers but an answer.

 

Spread is also like a double wing, or double tight offense... still the same number of gaps if not more, a screen is like a buck sweep man.... thats all it is. add in the option and we have created more space. Thing the spread does is allow you to take big stud lineman out of the game, for example lets say you run a double wing set, under center, I got a d1a 295 lb tackle that runs a 4.8 Line him up on the guard, in this offense I have taken away every play you run in all of your gaps to that side by penetration.... sad but true... spread me out, let me chase about 8 screens and pass rush 20 times, I am done!!

Spread is also like a double wing, or double tight offense... still the same number of gaps if not more, a screen is like a buck sweep man.... thats all it is. add in the option and we have created more space. Thing the spread does is allow you to take big stud lineman out of the game, for example lets say you run a double wing set, under center, I got a d1a 295 lb tackle that runs a 4.8 Line him up on the guard, in this offense I have taken away every play you run in all of your gaps to that side by penetration.... sad but true... spread me out, let me chase about 8 screens and pass rush 20 times, I am done!!

 

That D1 DT is going to get double teamed, trapped and cut on every play. What if out of that double wing you are running rocket or jet sweep. Once again that DT isn't doing crap. More than one way to skin a cat there. I have witnessed many a war daddy just not chase now screens. I have also witnessed a ton of them eat up middle, slow and jailbreak screens. Look at the Oregon vs Auburn game from a few years ago and even when optioning them if that DT is fast enough to attack a mesh point it can be a tough day.

 

When you go spread and I am assuming people mean 2x2 or some other no TE set you only have 3 gaps to each side. A, B, and C and it compresses the defense into a smaller area. Now if you do what Trinity did to Ryle they went empty with two TEs and then set the 3 WR to the same side. A 4x1 formation with 8 gaps. that is a pain to deal with. Buck Sweep isn't a sweep but honestly a C game play like power in which you want to run it up inside and bounce it if you have to.

In reality, isn't Franklin's offense an option? There are multiple receivers, running various routes from screens to down and outs to go routes, the QB has the "option" of throwing to whom ever the defense gives him. Sure, some of the plays are designs screens but many have multiple "options".

 

The funny thing is, when we went to the Franklin system, people would say Raceland was a "passing team", I always countered that comment by saying, "we are a running team, we just pitch it a little further", due to the fact that most of the passes were around 10-20 yard competitions.

 

Leach has said before that the Air Raid is like the option. Between packaged plays, the read game and things like key screens teams have more and more options post snap. Just like the old options teams it means that those teams honestly carry fewer plays into a game because they have built in answers. It is also harder to time up things like Stick/Draw or the like. I mean if we are going to call any team that has choices post snap an option team then any team with a passing game is. It also would mean the run and shoot was an option offense.

Hence the book "air option football" by Homer Rice 1978

Hence the book "air option football" by Homer Rice 1978

He published that in 1985 and Homer Rice on the Triple Option is 1973.

That D1 DT is going to get double teamed, trapped and cut on every play. What if out of that double wing you are running rocket or jet sweep. Once again that DT isn't doing crap. More than one way to skin a cat there. I have witnessed many a war daddy just not chase now screens. I have also witnessed a ton of them eat up middle, slow and jailbreak screens. Look at the Oregon vs Auburn game from a few years ago and even when optioning them if that DT is fast enough to attack a mesh point it can be a tough day.

 

When you go spread and I am assuming people mean 2x2 or some other no TE set you only have 3 gaps to each side. A, B, and C and it compresses the defense into a smaller area. Now if you do what Trinity did to Ryle they went empty with two TEs and then set the 3 WR to the same side. A 4x1 formation with 8 gaps. that is a pain to deal with. Buck Sweep isn't a sweep but honestly a C game play like power in which you want to run it up inside and bounce it if you have to.

 

I guess its who ever has the pen last, I am not trying to say I know more than you, but I have as many gaps as you in the spread I just made 5 of them real wide......, so your gonna take two kids two block one...hmmmm I see could cause things to open up.....thanks for the lesson, but its just a different philosophy.

He published that in 1985 and Homer Rice on the Triple Option is 1973.

 

I'm sorry about the publish date. He spoke at the AFCA coaches convention in 78 on "air option" football.