Just thinking out loud, but is the problem at Ashland a lack of numbers issue? Ive always been a critic of the way Flynn runs certain things in his basketball system. The entire thing is devoted towards the top 7 or 8 players and the rest of the team is kind of "left out" I was thinking about this the other day but look at all of the athletes he's lost because of this. Last year Brandon Pennington was the only senior on the team and that certainly hurt the cats last year. How much would athletes like Sam Hensley, Adam Clark, or Justin Canty have helped out last year? The class after that had Brandon Williams, Joe Smith, and Alex Wheeler all quit the team before coming back this year for their senior season. Ian Holbrook also quit and has not came back.

And the current junior class has already seen Luke Bonner, Fields Davis, Jared Williams, Kevin Burns and Shane Fairchild(soph) quit. Pretty much all of these players have quit while they were on the varsity and I'm just wondering out loud, how much of an impact could these players have made under Flynn if he could've got them to stick around?

I probably shouldn't touch this one with a ten foot pole but her goes.

 

I don't think you can blame Mike Flynn all together. I think it is inevitable that you are going to lose players when the emphasis is place on younger kids. I think Flynn believes his best chance to win now and in the future was to center things around Drew McDavid and Matt Thomas and I don't now how you could disagree with him. Therefore, when seniors realize that things are going to be geared toward sophmores and freshman they quit.

 

Rose Hill has lost some players over the past couple of years, Austin Robinson and Nick Messer to name two who quit for similar reasons. Just as in the case with Ashland I agree with the direction Tim Fraley has taken.

Flynn is one of, if not THE, best Coach in the region. I am sure he has what is best for his team in mind when he makes decisions. Ashland will be right there come March.

Goliath, my father and I had basically this same conversation until like 1am the other night, and we both pretty much agree with you. Ive gotta get to class, but I will make sure and post my feelings on this issue later today.

Ok here is what I think about this topic. I feel the worst thing to happen to Mike Flynn in his tenure at Ashland is Leon Hart. Everyone, and I mean everyone LOVES Coach Hart. Kids want to play for him, that is evident by the growing number of kids coming out for football every season. I dont feel the same thing can be said for Coach Flynn and the basketball team. Goliath made a great point about the number of kids who play a year or two then quit. You dont quit when you love your coach. Back when I was in school '94-'98 and even from '99-'02 basketball was king at Ashland, but now I think football has taken over as #1. Former Coach Larry Hall didnt live in Ashland, had no active roll in JFL or Verity Football. I feel he didnt create a program, but simply fielded a team every year, he did nothing to get the community involved. You could maybe say the same thing about Flynn. Could you imagine a Leon Hart coached team with Arliss Beach and Ryne Salyer among others?!?!?

 

Thats not to say that people dont care about basketball, but there is a sense of community associated with the football program. There is dedication from the guys that work on the field, go to the weekly film sessions, watch practice everyday, and work football camp. I just think that basketball got put on the backburner, and it doesnt help Coach Flynn when basically ALL his contributing basketball players are concentrating mainly on football from April to November, and most of them could be considered better football players than basketball players. I feel that Flynn will stay around atleast until next year and most likely until Matt graduates, but after that he has no reason to stay. And I dont think too many people will be sad to see him go. I think he is a good coach, but could probably be a better coach in a different situation.

Ok here is what I think about this topic. I feel the worst thing to happen to Mike Flynn in his tenure at Ashland is Leon Hart. Everyone, and I mean everyone LOVES Coach Hart. Kids want to play for him, that is evident by the growing number of kids coming out for football every season. I dont feel the same thing can be said for Coach Flynn and the basketball team. Goliath made a great point about the number of kids who play a year or two then quit. You dont quit when you love your coach. Back when I was in school '94-'98 and even from '99-'02 basketball was king at Ashland, but now I think football has taken over as #1. Former Coach Larry Hall didnt live in Ashland, had no active roll in JFL or Verity Football. I feel he didnt create a program, but simply fielded a team every year, he did nothing to get the community involved. You could maybe say the same thing about Flynn. Could you imagine a Leon Hart coached team with Arliss Beach and Ryne Salyer among others?!?!?

 

Thats not to say that people dont care about basketball, but there is a sense of community associated with the football program. There is dedication from the guys that work on the field, go to the weekly film sessions, watch practice everyday, and work football camp. I just think that basketball got put on the backburner, and it doesnt help Coach Flynn when basically ALL his contributing basketball players are concentrating mainly on football from April to November, and most of them could be considered better football players than basketball players. I feel that Flynn will stay around atleast until next year and most likely until Matt graduates, but after that he has no reason to stay. And I dont think too many people will be sad to see him go. I think he is a good coach, but could probably be a better coach in a different situation.

AT41, I share many of the same feelings as you. While Flynn might be a good coach in certain areas, he is certainly not a players coach by any means. Many of the players that could be great contributors right now or down the road have already quit because of reasons like that.

Football is definitely #1 priority in Ashland at this time. I would much rather focus year round playing for coach hart than Flynn.

AT41, I share many of the same feelings as you. While Flynn might be a good coach in certain areas, he is certainly not a players coach by any means. Many of the players that could be great contributors right now or down the road have already quit because of reasons like that.

Football is definitely #1 priority in Ashland at this time. I would much rather focus year round playing for coach hart than Flynn.

I don't intend to post here as a barb at Ashland by any means. So with that said, here goes. I have only personally met/spoken with both coaches Hart and Flynn twice each. I personally have no interest in Ashland sports and have no agenda therein. Coach Hart was more than personable. He seemed genuinely interested in our conversation and was incredibly pleasant. On the other hand, the times I have spoken with Coach Flynn have been just the opposite. He came off as abrasive, short and never made direct eye contact with any of us in the conversation. Does that make him a poor coach? Of course not, and that isn't my point. But a 16/17 year old kid isn't so google-eyed that they cannot see the same things. In another school where numbers were never an issue, maybe you'd never have this conversation, but at Ashland you don't have 45 kids interested in coming out for basketball. I also believe that you can't ask a school to promote kids to specialize in one sport or another and if you do, you will end up in a similar situation to Boyd a few years back when the baseball kids were basically "forbidden" to participate in other sports and the other sports programs suffered for it. It's just sort of ironic that these issues NEVER come up until you're wins are outnumbered by you're losses. That's when the the microscope gets focused!

Did the Fairview loss bring all these issues out or have they been simmering just under the surface?The only criticism I've ever heard on Bluegrass about Flynn has came from non-Ashland partisans.The past few posts are obviously from Ashland fans who care about the program.It must be remembered that overall Coach Flynn has had more success than Coach Hart while playing what most would consider a tougher schedule.Does this mean this will continue?I don't know.But I will agree with the basic premise that Coach Hart has been much more successful in getting kids to 'come out' for his sport.

 

I don't think you can blame Mike Flynn all together. I think it is inevitable that you are going to lose players when the emphasis is place on younger kids. I think Flynn believes his best chance to win now and in the future was to center things around Drew McDavid and Matt Thomas and I don't now how you could disagree with him. Therefore, when seniors realize that things are going to be geared toward sophmores and freshman they quit.

 

I would agree with you if it was our seniors that are quitting. We had three seniors come back and are playing this year. It seems that most of our kids are quitting in their freshman or sophmore seasons. I am not going to talk about Coach Flynn or his coaching style but I have talked to most of the players on the team over the past few weeks and they all say that they don't enjoy basketball at all. Everyone of these players that played football loved the sport and did not want it to end. If we could some of that excitement for basketball I feel we would have better results on the court.

Did the Fairview loss bring all these issues out or have they been simmering just under the surface?The only criticism I've ever heard on Bluegrass about Flynn has came from non-Ashland partisans.The past few posts are obviously from Ashland fans who care about the program.It must be remembered that overall Coach Flynn has had more success than Coach Hart while playing what most would consider a tougher schedule.Does this mean this will continue?I don't know.But I will agree with the basic premise that Coach Hart has been much more successful in getting kids to 'come out' for his sport.

IMO these issues gave gone without notice for a while. Flynn is not a popular person within the student body at Ashland and players quiting has always been a problem for him. I think their just coming to light because of Ashland's lack of success this year.

And in agreement with Tcat fan almost all these players that quit are either juniors or sophmores on the varsity squad.

I am not going to talk about Coach Flynn or his coaching style but I have talked to most of the players on the team over the past few weeks and they all say that they don't enjoy basketball at all. Everyone of these players that played football loved the sport and did not want it to end. If we could some of that excitement for basketball I feel we would have better results on the court.

 

Sadly,I can confirm this.

Did the Fairview loss bring all these issues out or have they been simmering just under the surface?The only criticism I've ever heard on Bluegrass about Flynn has came from non-Ashland partisans.The past few posts are obviously from Ashland fans who care about the program.It must be remembered that overall Coach Flynn has had more success than Coach Hart while playing what most would consider a tougher schedule.Does this mean this will continue?I don't know.But I will agree with the basic premise that Coach Hart has been much more successful in getting kids to 'come out' for his sport.

 

I wasnt the Fairview loss that brought this about. For the last couple of years there have been these rumblings. Coach Hart has only been at Ashland for 3 years and Flynn is in his 8th I think. In his first 2 years I think that Coach Hart's teams over achieved, especially in '04, by making it to Regional Finals in '03 and '04, which is basically the basketball equivalent of winning a game at Rupp, which Flynn has only done once. I know thats comparing apples to oranges, but Coach Hart changed the attitude about Ashland Football. He built a program, and its effects can been seen from the Ashland JFL to Verity, and to the Tomcats. When I was in high school Wayne Breeden built basketball into a program where you had 30 or 40 kids wanting to play basketball, and you actually had cuts. Its not that way now, I look at some of the kids that play now, and I think those same kids would have been the first ones cut back in the mid 90's.

I wasnt the Fairview loss that brought this about. For the last couple of years there have been these rumblings. Coach Hart has only been at Ashland for 3 years and Flynn is in his 8th I think. In his first 2 years I think that Coach Hart's teams over achieved, especially in '04, by making it to Regional Finals in '03 and '04, which is basically the basketball equivalent of winning a game at Rupp, which Flynn has only done once. I know thats comparing apples to oranges, but Coach Hart changed the attitude about Ashland Football. He built a program, and its effects can been seen from the Ashland JFL to Verity, and to the Tomcats. When I was in high school Wayne Breeden built basketball into a program where you had 30 or 40 kids wanting to play basketball, and you actually had cuts. Its not that way now, I look at some of the kids that play now, and I think those same kids would have been the first ones cut back in the mid 90's.

I agree. The teams have cuts but dont get nearly the players like the football team does now and the past Ashland teams have.

Flynn is a good coach, but im sure there wouldn't be too many people upset if he did leave.

I agree. The teams have cuts but dont get nearly the players like the football team does now and the past Ashland teams have.

Flynn is a good coach, but im sure there wouldn't be too many people upset if he did leave.

 

You are probably right.

Well, I'll have to weigh in on this one. The following is my opinion, and I base it on knowing Flynn on a fairly good basis.

 

1) I'm an Ashland fan.

2) For my money, Flynn is an EXCELLENT basketball coach. In terms of X's and O's, he takes a backseat to no one in our Region (or in the state). There are other excellent coaches in the 16th, and I don't mean that last statement as a slight toward the others.

3) I've never spoken with Flynn when he wasn't generous with his time, and courteous. Is he the warmest person I've ever met? No. But he has never even come close to being rude. Not even in the ballpark.

4) I cannot speak to the comments about kids wanting to play for him, but I can tell you this - if I were still living in Ashland, I'd be tickled to death to have my son play for him. Without question, he has had some players over the years that didn't like playing for him. I guarantee you that that statement can be made about any and every coach that ever held a whistle between his lips. Every last one of 'em.

5) He is respected around the state, by his coaching peers. That is not a universal (nobody is liked by everyone), but it is a solid statement.

6) Every team he has had has improved from the beginning of the season to the end. In my book, that makes him a good coach.

7) We are each entitled to our opinions, and these are mine. I have no problem whatsoever with anyone on this thread disagreeing with me, but I didn't want someone reading this thread to think that Flynn is some kind of callous hack that simply rolls the ball out there come game time. In my opinion, nothing could be further from the truth.

 

At some point in time, Flynn will leave his position as the head coach at Ashland. When he does, I'm sure that they'll find another highly qualified person to take the reigns. Until that time, the kids that play for him will get fundamentally better, they will learn a lot more about the game than they think they are learning, and the vast majority will look back on it as a good time.

 

 

Frances

 

PS - Little Frances can play for Coach Hart any time as well. :thumb: