Only if the man is a Democratic union supporter :ylsuper:

Even though you were trying in your own little way to be sarcastic ,Well said .

All Tell was being sarcastic.

 

 

From MSNBC so I am sure it will be dismissed but this last paragraph caught my attention.

 

 

Voter ID laws could disenfranchise 758,000 in Pennsylvania - The Ed Show

 

Really?

 

I knew he was being sarcastic for Pete's sake. But since he quoted me while making his sarcastic comment, I wanted to make it clear that I thought no one's life was that important, not just a Democratic union supporter. I joined the Marines to preserve our freedoms, including the freedom to vote and have that vote be meaningful and worth something; not something to be negated by some fraudulent voter.

 

And for the record, I am in no way anti-union for reasons KyTmcNcc surely knows. I know first hand the many valuable attributes of union workers.

Really?

 

I knew he was being sarcastic for Pete's sake. But since he quoted me while making his sarcastic comment, I wanted to make it clear that I thought no one's life was that important, not just a Democratic union supporter. I joined the Marines to preserve our freedoms, including the freedom to vote and have that vote be meaningful and worth something; not something to be negated by some fraudulent voter.

 

And for the record, I am in no way anti-union for reasons KyTmcNcc surely knows. I know first hand the many valuable attributes of union workers.

 

My fault. I knew he was directing his post towards me. My apologies.

My fault. I knew he was directing his post towards me. My apologies.

 

No problem.

Seeing Eric Holder speak is not a fundamental right.

 

Fair point. Do you think that having to produce an ID to vote is an illegal infringement on the right to vote? Does the Constitution guarantee an unfettered right to vote and that no safeguards/rules/restrictions of any type can be imposed on the voters?

Do you think that having to produce an ID to vote is an illegal infringement on the right to vote? Does the Constitution guarantee an unfettered right to vote and that no safeguards/rules/restrictions of any type can be imposed on the voters?

 

To answer your first question: not necessarily, given the right set of circumstances. If there was a way, in every single state, to obtain a voter identification card ABSOLUTELY FREE, then we're headed in the right direction. I still think it has the effect of disproportionately affecting blacks, latinos and the poor, but like I said, it's moving in the right direction.

 

As to your second question, I think that even the most broadly-interpreted rights in the constitution can be subject to certain restrictions, but there had better be a darn good reason for them. There are a lot of types of election fraud, and very few of them occur at a polling place where the presentation of and ID would be a deterrent. As far as I know, there hasn't been a single case of successfully prosecuted voter fraud that would have been stopped by a voter ID. Are we really prepared as a country to risk the disenfranchisement of numerous voters with a severe solution to a problem that doesn't exist?

Fair point. Do you think that having to produce an ID to vote is an illegal infringement on the right to vote? Does the Constitution guarantee an unfettered right to vote and that no safeguards/rules/restrictions of any type can be imposed on the voters?

I don't as long as the ID is free otherwise it is akin to a poll tax .

Well as I said earlier, I thought and hoped Obama would change the culture of race, well he did, for the worse. If I don't vote Obama I am accused of not voting for him because he is black. Why they bring up slavery I have no clue, it isn't like they were slaves or their parents were slaves. I get sick of hearing race card when Obama or Holder don't get their way. Grow up and realize people don't want to vote for you due to your policies.

Well as I said earlier, I thought and hoped Obama would change the culture of race, well he did, for the worse. If I don't vote Obama I am accused of not voting for him because he is black. Why they bring up slavery I have no clue, it isn't like they were slaves or their parents were slaves. I get sick of hearing race card when Obama or Holder don't get their way. Grow up and realize people don't want to vote for you due to your policies.

 

Do you read the replies of others in the threads you create? Hatz, amongst others, had an interesting response to your question.

I don't as long as the ID is free otherwise it is akin to a poll tax .

 

I agree with this.

To explore the original question - 'why does the race card get played so much'. It seems understanding the background of some of the key players would good.

 

Valierie Jarrett

 

Her grand father was the first black Housing Authority chairman in Chicago. But his ideas and plans of integrated housing by spreading public housing works around Chicago was rejected by the Chicago council. This caused him to resign. He later built massive housing complexes that were originally thought to be the future but then became icons for the failure of hyper dense urban housing.

 

Certainly the public battles of her grandfather would shape Ms. Jarrett's views.

 

My Left Wing:: So Just Who Is Valerie Jarrett?

 

 

Michelle Roberts Obama

 

She basically grew up in Jessie Jackson's house. Jackson's anger at the establishment is obvious at times. He was there when Martin Luther King was killed. He carries deep scars of the 1960s race battles.

 

 

So as much as we would like to move on to post-race America. The two women closest to Obama and who have enormous power in this administration are no really post-race America children. They are direct decedents in a way of people who were in the midst of the 1950s and 1960s bitter race fights. These have likely shaped some of the thinking inside this administration.

Well as I said earlier, I thought and hoped Obama would change the culture of race, well he did, for the worse. If I don't vote Obama I am accused of not voting for him because he is black. Why they bring up slavery I have no clue, it isn't like they were slaves or their parents were slaves. I get sick of hearing race card when Obama or Holder don't get their way. Grow up and realize people don't want to vote for you due to your policies.

 

There's really no point in discussing race or the race card anymore. It's never a true productive discussion and it is painfully clear that our country still isn't truly ready for a true discussion about race. Both sides are still way too defensive to make significant progress in race relations.

To explore the original question - 'why does the race card get played so much'. It seems understanding the background of some of the key players would good.

 

Valierie Jarrett

 

Her grand father was the first black Housing Authority chairman in Chicago. But his ideas and plans of integrated housing by spreading public housing works around Chicago was rejected by the Chicago council. This caused him to resign. He later built massive housing complexes that were originally thought to be the future but then became icons for the failure of hyper dense urban housing.

 

Certainly the public battles of her grandfather would shape Ms. Jarrett's views.

 

My Left Wing:: So Just Who Is Valerie Jarrett?

 

 

Michelle Roberts Obama

 

She basically grew up in Jessie Jackson's house. Jackson's anger at the establishment is obvious at times. He was there when Martin Luther King was killed. He carries deep scars of the 1960s race battles.

 

 

So as much as we would like to move on to post-race America. The two women closest to Obama and who have enormous power in this administration are no really post-race America children. They are direct decedents in a way of people who were in the midst of the 1950s and 1960s bitter race fights. These have likely shaped some of the thinking inside this administration.

 

 

Excellent post with tremendous insight.

 

 

The 1960's have shaped a lot of blacks minds that are age 40 and over. Lots of emotional scars on that generation. A large percentage of that generation is going to see race in a majority of things that happen.

 

It's like I tell people, my father is a highly educated and well respected man in his workforce and he will tell you to your face that some of the troubles and lack of cooperation Obama has is because of his race. He's turning 65 this year so obviously he sees a lot of things in a racial aspect/perspective and with scars that I never received.

To answer your first question: not necessarily, given the right set of circumstances. If there was a way, in every single state, to obtain a voter identification card ABSOLUTELY FREE, then we're headed in the right direction. I still think it has the effect of disproportionately affecting blacks, latinos and the poor, but like I said, it's moving in the right direction.

 

As to your second question, I think that even the most broadly-interpreted rights in the constitution can be subject to certain restrictions, but there had better be a darn good reason for them. There are a lot of types of election fraud, and very few of them occur at a polling place where the presentation of and ID would be a deterrent. As far as I know, there hasn't been a single case of successfully prosecuted voter fraud that would have been stopped by a voter ID. Are we really prepared as a country to risk the disenfranchisement of numerous voters with a severe solution to a problem that doesn't exist?

 

Thank you for the response. I too agree that restrictions can be placed on constitutinal rights. I don't look at voter ID laws as restrictions on the right to vote; I look at voter ID laws as a protection of the right to vote.

 

Contrary to the extremely insulting comments made by some on here about the motivation for the tougher voting laws, I'm not in favor of tougher voting laws to discriminate against the poor, the homeless, blacks or latinos. To the contrary, it is because I put a lot of time, effort and study into my votes and I don't want those votes negated by someone walking into a polling place and saying he or she is someone he or she is not and being able to fraudulently voting someone else's ballot. Dang it, my grandfather, my father and I all served this country to protect freedoms, including the freedom of people to be able to elect their govt leaders. What value is there of having the freedom to vote if that vote can easily be negated by fraud? If my valid vote can be negated by a fraudulent vote, what value is there in having a right to vote? I analyze this much like I analyzed a student athlete having the regulatory and statutory right to appeal the KHSAA's final decision to the judicial system and obtain a temporary injunction making the student athlete eligible. For a period of time in the past, the KHSAA through threats of sanctions, attempted to intimidate schools into not letting those kids play even if they obtained an injunction permitting the kids to play. While it fell on deaf ears with most of the other board members (fortunately the General Assembly listened), I argued what good is having the regulatory and statutory right to obtain an injunction, if the KHSAA through the threat of sanctions, could negate the injunction? What good is there in having the right to vote, if the vote is easily negated by fraudulent votes? Voting ID laws, in my opinion, protect my right to cast a vote that will be meaningful.

 

My constitutional right to vote extends beyond the mere physical act of filling out the ballot. It extends, I believe, to my vote actually meaning something. If it's going to be wiped out by fraudulent votes of others, it is meaningless and my constitutional right to vote has been negated; it is worthless. I think that my constitutional right to vote requires that the states take reasonable steps to prevent fraudulent votes.

 

My mind just keeps going back to that video in the other thread of someone being given the opportunity to vote Holder's ballot.

The ease in which that was done is extremely scary to me. Does what shown in that concern you? As this country has become more and more partisan and frankly emotional about politics to the point of being irrational, I think voting fraud will increase if its permitted and easy to do.

 

We'll disagree as to whether requiring a person wanting to vote to obtain a photo ID is a severe solution. I submit and believe that it is not. An inconvenience, even an extreme inconvenience, for some? Sure. An severe solution? No. I realize that some people will not want to get a photo ID for various reasons. In order to help protect the integrity of the voting process and my constitutional right to cast a meaningful vote, I am not bothered that they will have to do something that they don't want to do in order to vote.

 

I posted this article in another thread: Study: 1.8 Million Dead People Still Registered To Vote : NPR. I don't know for certainty the level of voter fraud that is present today (and I'd like to see the sources you rely on in saying with such certainty that the problem doesn't exist) but if the article is correct, it seems to me that the potential for a big problem certainly exists. Do we want to address it after it affects an election? Heck, it could have already affected an election; the 2004 Bush Gore vote in Florida. I'm not above believing that some poorly misguided Rs in Florida committed voter fraud that could have been prevented by voter ID. While I'm glad that Bush beat Gore, if it happened as a result of voter fraud, I'd rather Gore have won.

 

I do think the other types of voting fraud also need to be addressed and laws tightened up.

 

I look forward to your response, but I may not be able to get back to this thread for a while as I have a ton of loan docs I have to get out this morning.

I'd love to know what was so insulting. All I see is the myriad of different perspectives which I thought was being done in a respectful tone.

 

To each his own.