Notice that he didn't say "Voter ID, because we are tired of the 13 cases of voter fraud in PA over the last 10 years."

For the legal historians: Has the SC had a case brought to it stating that Voter ID requirements are unconstitutional due to the poll tax argument?

 

For example, in MS you have to have the FREE voter ID card. However, in order to get that you have to have a certified copy of your birth certificate which costs $15. In order to get the certificate you have to have a valid photo ID. Circular.

For the legal historians: Has the SC had a case brought to it stating that Voter ID requirements are unconstitutional due to the poll tax argument?

 

For example, in MS you have to have the FREE voter ID card. However, in order to get that you have to have a certified copy of your birth certificate which costs $15. In order to get the certificate you have to have a valid photo ID. Circular.

 

I understand what you're saying, but want to pose this question to you...do you consider the act of voting to be a "right" or a "privilege"? If one thinks of it as a right, then really it should never be able to be taken away...nor can you have rules that restrict it. Yet, we do. You have to be of a certain age in order to be able to vote. You have to be a citizen of this country in order to vote. You cannot be a convicted felon, etc. etc.

 

If, however, you look at voting as a privilege, then there is by nature, restrictions built in. Buying alcohol is a privilege...you have to be of a certain age, and may have to provide a photo ID to prove it. Driving a car is also a privilege...not only do you have the age factor again, but you may be required to take a driver's ed course prior to getting your license the first time. If you fail to meet any of these requirements, your privilege may be denied.

 

So, when it comes to voting, is it really too much to ask that a person is able to prove who they say they are? Maybe the process involved to get that valid ID needs to be addressed so that it is streamlined and standardized for all the states. How best to do that? I don't know.

I understand what you're saying, but want to pose this question to you...do you consider the act of voting to be a "right" or a "privilege"? If one thinks of it as a right, then really it should never be able to be taken away...nor can you have rules that restrict it. Yet, we do. You have to be of a certain age in order to be able to vote. You have to be a citizen of this country in order to vote. You cannot be a convicted felon, etc. etc.

 

If, however, you look at voting as a privilege, then there is by nature, restrictions built in. Buying alcohol is a privilege...you have to be of a certain age, and may have to provide a photo ID to prove it. Driving a car is also a privilege...not only do you have the age factor again, but you may be required to take a driver's ed course prior to getting your license the first time. If you fail to meet any of these requirements, your privilege may be denied.

 

So, when it comes to voting, is it really too much to ask that a person is able to prove who they say they are? Maybe the process involved to get that valid ID needs to be addressed so that it is streamlined and standardized for all the states. How best to do that? I don't know.

 

CSF, the original post was to show what many of us believe is the TRUE motivation behind Voter ID laws. IMO it's true motivation is hidden by what you and many others post. If you want to debate that issue then I'll play along.

 

The cries of "voter fraud" ring hollow as the number of times it's been found to have occurred is miniscule compared to the hundreds of thousands of voters who do not have acceptable ID today. PA just passed a new law and only a few forms of ID are approved. A decent % of PA's population of registered voters do not have those IDs. They may have an electric bill for the apartment they rent but that's not accepted. Who are these voters? Right. Those that lean to the left.

 

The Voter ID law is quite transparent in its true goal.

 

There have been attempts at new legislation in many states since the 2008 election. Again, transparent.

 

Post #2 ponders the legality of it.

Laws are created to fix problems. Yet there is no evidence that voter fraud is a problem. So you have to ask yourself what the real reason for the law is.

 

If there is an problem with votes it's in the area of absentee ballots. Voter ID isn't going to fix that issue.

 

Voter fraud , as I've said numerous times, is a red herring.

My dad will be sick if Romney wins Pennsylvania. When I went to visit him a couple of weeks ago he is certain Obama takes Pennsylvania.

My dad will be sick if Romney wins Pennsylvania. When I went to visit him a couple of weeks ago he is certain Obama takes Pennsylvania.

 

A study was done and it was found that something like 700k names on the voter registration list do not have a drivers license. Not sure how many of those are active voters but...

A study was done and it was found that something like 700k names on the voter registration list do not have a drivers license. Not sure how many of those are active voters but...

 

That's an awful lot of voters.

Yet there is no evidence that voter fraud is a problem.

 

This doesn't directly relate to Voter ID (Democratic election rules are different than Republican rules), but I think voter fraud might be a legit concern according to some Democrats from the '08 election.

 

[video=youtube;EGZFgMNM-UU]

This doesn't directly relate to Voter ID (Democratic election rules are different than Republican rules), but I think voter fraud might be a legit concern according to some Democrats from the '08 election.

 

[video=youtube;EGZFgMNM-UU]

 

 

Is there some fraud? Yes. Is it big enough to warrant changes in laws that are going to negatively impact 100x voters? That's my issue.

Maybe there was not an anticipated backlash to the ACORN or similar antics of 2008. But something had to happen. It is possible the pendulum has swung too much. But when fraud is rampant and even worse - organized. Something has to be done.

 

You have to show state issued photo ID to get on an airplane - and a lot of seniors do that. You have to show state-issued photo ID for any transaction over $10,000 (Patriot Act) - and a lot of seniors do that. You have to have a photo ID for so many things. To act as if this will disenfranchise people is somewhat silly. Normal, legal voters have photo-IDs.

Maybe there was not an anticipated backlash to the ACORN or similar antics of 2008. But something had to happen. It is possible the pendulum has swung too much. But when fraud is rampant and even worse - organized. Something has to be done.

 

You have to show state issued photo ID to get on an airplane - and a lot of seniors do that. You have to show state-issued photo ID for any transaction over $10,000 (Patriot Act) - and a lot of seniors do that. You have to have a photo ID for so many things. To act as if this will disenfranchise people is somewhat silly. Normal, legal voters have photo-IDs.

 

 

Where you been? I thought you'd never get in here.

 

ACORN is a made up "crisis" to stir the base. There were no reported cases of voter fraud as a result of ACORN.

 

Lastly, you're ignoring the issue. There is no need for the new law so it's only being created for one reason. The innocents impacted far, far, far outweigh any that would be kept from voting fraudulently.

Where you been? I thought you'd never get in here.

 

ACORN is a made up "crisis" to stir the base. There were no reported cases of voter fraud as a result of ACORN.

 

Lastly, you're ignoring the issue. There is no need for the new law so it's only being created for one reason. The innocents impacted far, far, far outweigh any that would be kept from voting fraudulently.

 

ACORN is/was not a made up crisis. They have been convicted on voter fraud charges all around the country.

 

Fraud Map :: Rotten Acorn ::

 

The American Spectator : The Spectacle Blog : ACORN Fined Maximum in Nevada Voter Fraud Scheme

 

McCaskill Campaign Implicated in ACORN Voter Fraud Scandal

 

Philadelphia is second only to Chicago when it comes to voter fraud.

 

Having a photo ID is reasonable. It probably will undo a lot of actions done in 2008.

 

I don't think the ball should have been spiked as it was. But getting control of voting process now needs to be a priority in states. It is unfortunate, but needed.

 

Video from Pennsylvania from 2010 campaign.

 

ACORN is/was not a made up crisis. They have been convicted on voter fraud charges all around the country.

 

Fraud Map :: Rotten Acorn ::

 

The American Spectator : The Spectacle Blog : ACORN Fined Maximum in Nevada Voter Fraud Scheme

 

McCaskill Campaign Implicated in ACORN Voter Fraud Scandal

 

Philadelphia is second only to Chicago when it comes to voter fraud.

 

Having a photo ID is reasonable. It probably will undo a lot of actions done in 2008.

 

I don't think the ball should have been spiked as it was. But getting control of voting process now needs to be a priority in states. It is unfortunate, but needed.

 

Video from Pennsylvania from 2010 campaign.

 

 

 

You're a smart dude. You know what they got in trouble for . They got in trouble for paying people to register under "Donald Duck" and dead people and, as pointed out in your link, a fast food restaurant. How does that impact actual voting? There is no study out there that shows voting fraud is a real problem and , if it is, it's not at the voting booth. It's the absentee ballots and those aren't being used much in Philly.

 

Again, the supposed crime doesn't fit the new law. ACORN was the trojan horse that allowed R-controlled states to come up with a way to keep many, many voters away.

You're a smart dude. You know what they got in trouble for . They got in trouble for paying people to register under "Donald Duck" and dead people and, as pointed out in your link, a fast food restaurant. How does that impact actual voting? There is no study out there that shows voting fraud is a real problem and , if it is, it's not at the voting booth. It's the absentee ballots and those aren't being used much in Philly.

 

Again, the supposed crime doesn't fit the new law. ACORN was the trojan horse that allowed R-controlled states to come up with a way to keep many, many voters away.

 

I have spent enough time in both Chicago and Philadelphia to know that localized voter fraud is a way of life. And yes, everyone knew was doing it and what had to be done to address and it is kept at the local level. I know how 'the machine' works in Chicago with 'block sergeants' who take care of you if you lose a job but tell you - 'better remember this in November'. And that IS petty and localized stuff and way of life.

 

But ACORN and other groups franchised voter fraud in the 2000s and took it national and made 'a machine' just as the video points out. Centralized, coordinated, targeted. Even when it is not ACORN the ability to manipulate vote totals as the video shows is incredable when done in an organized fashion. That is the scary part. Unfortunately it puts a burden on the honest individuals - but not much of a burden. We have to prove who we are over and over again. Photo-IDs are standard for everything for everyone in today's security ID driven world.

 

When democrats do 90% of voter fraud they are the ones that squawk on the 'clean up the rolls' efforts. So naturally, the efforts 'favor non-Democrats' in the majority of cases.