acemona

There are nice generalizations and accusations, but still not a repudiations of the statements above. Now I know not everyone agrees with all of those statements, but those are the ones that most liberals are called out on. (poor grammar, but it is Friday afternoon)

Not all liberals, but that is why I put the caveat in there. What is wrong with the rest of the ideas?

What is the one political belief, tenet, idea, ideal, paradigm, whatever that makes being liberal a bad thing? 1. Believing that the Earth God provided us is more important than the almighty dollar?*** 2. Believing that those in need (even if they don't deserve it) should be helped by the established government?*** 3. That people frequenting a government supported establishment/organization, etc (school, courtroom, legislative room) should be able to do so without a particular religion thrust upon them by the same government that compels them to frequent the establishment?*** 4. That morality cannot be legislated (successfully - see prohibition) but that it could/should be taught in the homes and churches and then practiced by everyone?*** 5. That peace is always the better alternative to war? The we should, as God instructed, Love our enemies and bless those that persecute us?*** 6. That what someone does in the privacy of their bedroom between two consenting adults is no business of the government? 7. That the government should not prohibit two adults from entering into a binding contract that does not promote illegal activity thereby limiting the parties from reaping the benefits of said contract? 8. That medical treatment should be derived after conversations with the doctor, patient and when appropriate the family and that the government should have no say in those procedures? 9. That the working people, of the richest country in the world, should be paid a living wage?*** 10. That all people should have access to quality, affordable, health care?*** 11. That the commandment to not murder extends to the death penalty?*** ***are items I also believe to be the teachings of Jesus. Why do these beliefs make someone evil?? (caveat - the abortion question is the only one where I can understand the difference in that those who are pro-life, believe that abortion is the taking of the life of another human. I respect that belief and I disagree - at this point in my life. Science may later change my mind.) All of these, with the exception of the one, actually work to help people live better lives. I just can't see what is so bad about them?

So which story of creation is the 'right' one?

Isn't that ultimately what everyone says? We just vary on how the form started out. We were all created "from the earth". Genesis 1 says nothing about clay, earth, breath, rib only that man was created in God's image.

Creation through evolution is what my Biology professor at Centre taught and I believe he was deacon at the local Baptist church, and Centre is a presbyterian school.

Your numbers are just plain wrong: Franklin County is over 1100 Western Hills may exceed 800 next year Frankfort High has about 320 Monte Chance has nothing to do with Frankfort High School so his decisions about elementary schools is irrelevant. 1992 they tried to combine the schools and the community was against it. A school located on the E/W connector may be 15 minutes from the other schools, but it is not reachable in 15 minutes from 'anywhere in the county'. If you talk to leading Superintendents in the state, the ideal comprehensive high school has about 1000 students. Look at the numbers in the Oldham County System - i would say the county system is playing its #s about right, and Frankfor fits a special niche for those who need it. Lastly, the feeder system rules will not come into play as long as the city and county schools have a reciprocal agreement. If the schools allow state money to travel with the kids when they go to an out of district school, that is okay. Middle school choice won't matter. You must not have paid much attention to Frankfort High's Athletic programs the last 5-7 years. Some have competed exceptionally well, while others have not - like most high schools. It is not rare for the Football, soccer, boys basketball, and track to compete with both county and hills and with other teams in the region.

I was a world history teacher for 13 years. The babylonians vanquished/assimilated the Sumerians (the first group of people who could be called a civilization) around the 3rd millenium BC. The oldest known version of the the Epic of Gilgamesh (with a great flood) is dated around 2150-2000 BC. Old testament writings were collected around 800 BC. Nearly all of the Ancient civilizations (many existing prior to the Hebrews) had stories of the Great Deluge. Just a quick search on Wikipedia . . . cool info., a lot of this is true about many great old testament stories . . . The mysterious figure of Enoch is the beginning of a fascinating but inconclusive web of correspondences and similarities between the story of Noah and older Mesopotamian myths. According to Genesis 5:24, at the end of his 365 years Enoch "walked with God, and was not, for God took him" - the only one of the ten pre-Flood Patriarchs not reported to have died. Where did Enoch go when God took him? In a late Apocryphal tradition, Methuselah is reported to have visited Enoch at the end of the Earth, where he dwelt with the angels, immortal. The details bring to mind Utnapishtim, a figure from the Mesopotamian Epic of Gilgamesh - the hero Gilgamesh, after long and arduous travel, finds Utnapishtim living in the paradise of Dilmun at the end of the Earth, where he has been granted eternal life by the gods. (Gilgamesh's reason for seeking out Utnapishtim, incidentally, is to learn the secret of immortality - like Methuselah, he comes close to the gift but fails to achieve it). Utnapishtim then tells how he survived a great flood, and how he was afterwards granted immortality by the gods. Lamech's statement that Noah will be named "rest" because "out of the ground which the Lord has cursed this one shall bring us relief from our work and from the toil of our hands," has another faint parallel in Babylonian mythology: the gods grew tired of working, digging the channels of the rivers, and so the god Enki created man from clay and blood and spit to do the work for them. Enki fell in love with his creation, and later warned Utnapishtim that the other gods planned to send a flood to destroy all life, and advised him on how to construct his ark.

The Sumerians were gone, or on their way out by the time of Noah. The story is older and takes place earlier in history. Hey, how come you don't read about the Sumerians in the Bible?

If you KNOW it all to be correct, then there is no need for faith. I am going to use a loose example, I hope I am not 'crucified' for it - Aesop told many stories, probably none of them true but they all had truth in them. You don't have to take Aesop's stories literally to understand the message and the message does not lose its power b/c the stories are not factual - the truth is the truth. The Genesis story simply does not jive with what we know about the natural world and the Bible makes no claim to be a science or history book. If God would not lead us astray why would God trick us? Did the sun, which never moves, actually stand still . . . We are not even sure of the actual year of Jesus' birth - Herod is NOT a proven historical figure (at least not the one said to have been ruling @ the time of Jesus' birth) Noah is the retelling of an ancient Sumerian story . . . John thought and preached like Jesus was coming back in his lifetime - how could he get that important fact WRONG - if you are not married, he says, stay that way for the Lord is coming soon and you need to not get tangled up before then. Jesus says "Lo I am with you even until the end of the Ages" and we talk about the second coming . . . The creation stories in Genesis 1 and 2 are even contradictory - one is a story of order, and the other of Chaos (but both have God at the center of Creation which is the Truth we are to get from the story).

Where does it talk about science or history. All I see is "God breathed for training in righteousness".

Why do you believe that? There is no biblical basis for that belief. It does not say that anywhere in the scripture, and by the way, when Timothy wrote he didn't consider his writing scripture, so the only thing Timothy could have meant by scripture was what was known at the time, and that isn't even the entire "Old Testament".

Yet, men decided what was to be included and what was to be excluded. Why is Josephus not included, and many other letters and historical writings. What about the source "Q" which most believe is the origin of the synoptic gospels. I will not be visiting.

I am a Christian and I think I would be a conscientious objector. My Jesus teaches me to love my enemy and to pray for those who persecute me.

So . . . when we think a law is ridiculous we should ignore it? Have you seen the Ali thread?

Not so fast my good friend . . . Berea was one of my options, but I THOUGHT I was going to go play basketball at Centre. What a disappointment when I got there and realized that not only was I not one of the better basketball players but I was not one of the smartest - that is why KERA is sooo important (to keep us on topic) and I was certainly one of the least wealthy. Centre took care of me though. You know what is so odd is that in many circles Centre is considered a very conservative college (see all the grads in the Fletcher admin) and Berea is rathre progressive. Ironic given SOME of our stances on issues

ok:p

That may be one of the scariest statement i have seen on this board.

While the process you lay out is correct, the board of Control, nor the State Board of Education propose rules. They are proposed by and voted on by the members. You are right in that the KHSAA is a state agency. However, the most of the board of control is elected by the members and can be replaced during the next election. But I do agree with the rest of your post. C6H0

Lest we forget, he also did a GREAT DEAL of humanitarian work, especially in Africa, after his fighting career was over. http://www.ali.com/news/default.asp?newsId=11

You know, this is very similar to the "level playing field" debate in that we bash the people who really are only the administers of the rules that have been adopted. In the case of the KHSAA we complain about all of their rules and the effect they have on kids. What we fail to realize, or choose to ignore, is that the KHSAA is made up of member schools and member schools make the rules. The commissioner and associate commissioner only administer them. The SCHOOLS MAKE THE RULES. in the case of the KDE, TEACHERS from the state of KENTUCKY create/created the Program of Studies, Academic Expectations, and CORE CONTENT. It was not simply an administrator sitting in an office in the 'the Tower. The TEST is taken from the core content. How is that bad? Here are the two negaitves I see. 1) Students are not held accountable for their scores 2) Some of the material tested may be 3 years old for some students. Outside of that, it is a pretty valid measure of the learning that took place. And to simply say that teachers from a particular area know what is best for their students is often times bunk. The highest math offered at Middlesboro High School in 1985 was pre-calc - I don't recall any AP classes offered. When I went to Centre College after that and saw that some kids from the Golden Triangle and other areas in the state had experienced Linear Algrebra in High School, I realized how poor my back-ground was. To say that someone doesn't need Algebra 2 is ultimately to deny them Algebra 2. How could you possible know what someone might need 15 years from the time they graduate. And forget about 'ordered pairs' and 'quadratic equations', what about knowing and being able to apply rules. Often times it is the process that is beneficial and not necessarily the facts themselves. I know longer use specific Algebra 2 functions in my daily life, but I am often faced with situations with many variables and rules to apply. I have to make judgments on the best rules and with which variables, and I do this about 80 times a day - at least, as an assistant principal. The background has served me well.

If what you say is correct, then all of the counties would be funded equally - that is simply not the case. Real property tax (to the state) is not a dedicated 'education' tax. It is real easy to go to the KDE website and see the disparities in per pupil spending. Any time you don't assess and collect at the highest possible rates, your school district loses money. The state does subsidize, but it is a minimal subsidy. Look up Owsley Counties #s.

You are right LBBC - money is not taken from local districts and then redistributed. State Government has no claim to local tax money, unless the local taxing "organization" agrees to give it up. Anchorage is one of the wealthiest districts in the state and receives little money from Frankfort, but the community has decided to pay taxes to support education there. The money they raise does not leave to district.

Given all of this, Jesus still preached a message of Love, forgiveness and acceptance. Again do you think the Jesus meant he would turn families against one another violently? Or that there would be disagreement in families b/c some would reject him? He also meant that our first love MUST be for him, but then his love would flow through us to our family. If we love ourselves or our family first we cannot have his love. He is not talking about turning your back on your children 7 x 70.

What I am saying is that the message that comes from Southeast is often the message that unbelievers hear. I am saying that fundamentalist Christians are on the airways more than moderate Christians are and they are the ones seen by the unchurched. I am saying that Jesus tells us that Love is the most important thing and that if we continue to love one another and Love God that sin will begin to disappear first from our lives and then from the world. Not because we are afraid of going to hell but because we love God and have a relationship with God. As for the death of Jesus, who killed him. 1) Jewish RELIGIOUS leaders who saw him as a threat to their power and authority b/c he preached a religion of love and forgiveness not of following and keeping rules. PRETTY POWERFUL 2) The Roman authorities whose ower and authority were threatened b/c Jesus preached a message of new Kingdom whose authority would be based on love and grace and not on the sword and oppression. We can talk about atonement and its meaning in another thread.