Diogenes

1.So do I understand that you agree with me that even if a private school pays an athlete's tuition, the player gets nothing he wouldn't get at a public school since there is no tuition at public schools? 2. Don't know the numbers, but one poster from Trinity said about 3 or 4 from there over the last 3 years, two of which were state titles. 3.I don't know why schools have had such long runs as state champs. Trinity and Highlands have 16 each. Other multiple winners include St. X, Beechwood, Boyle County, Danville, Belfry, Mayfield. Only St. X and Trinity are private.

Assuming you are right, and assuming that a private school paid the entire tuition of an athlete, this only puts the athlete at the private school on a level playing field with an athlete at a public school. They would each pay $0 tuition. So where would there be any advantage for the private school?

Finch will play. I do not know about Hall.

I had just assumed that it would be at the same location as last year. Has anyone heard differently? If so, please post any new location.

"They can get whoever they want and as many as they want, and the rest of us are limited," Redman said. Along with many posters on this thread, this was the quote in the CJ that flummoxed me. Does anyone understand what he was implying? If, indeed, "They can get whoever they want and as many as they want, and the rest of us are limited," wouldn't X or T have wanted and gotten, just since 1998: MONTRELL JONES, GERRY AHRENS MARCUS GREEN, GARNER BYARS TODD FLANNERY, KELLEN BARNES CHRIS BARCLAY, DOUGLAS BEAUMONT RYAN BLACKERBY, CASEY SHUMATE TODD FLANNERY, MICHAEL BUSH SERGIO SPENCER Also, wouldn't X have wanted or gotten a football stadium by now?

Whew!!! That would be a rugged schedule regardless of the size of the student body. Your point is well taken; the lower the enrollment of the school, the more difficult it is to compete. I wasn't aware that anyone in the state played a schedule more difficult than that of St. X. It appears that both Covington Catholic and St. X. duck no opponent and if possible go out of their way to build a rugged schedule. It is my belief that St. X. plays in the most difficult district in Kentucky high school football. In addition to St. X., the district features Male, Manual, PRP, Butler, and an improving Iroquois. Out of district,the Tigers meet archrival Trinity, rugged Fern Creek,and 3A powers Highlands, Lexington Catholic and Bowling Green. However,they do not meet the Ohio powers that Covington Catholic has on its schedule. By the way, I would argue that Butler, Manual, and Iroquois have a rougher road than PRP, Male or St. X. in the district because they have to play this year's "Big Three" and PRP, Male or St. X. has only the play two of the "Big Three". Excluding themselves, St. X. plays the top three teams in 4A and either the top two or three teams in 3A. I believe everyone can agree that this is an extremely impressive schedule.

Is the game on radio in Bowling Green? If so, what station?

There is one factor that I neglected to mention in this discussion of the 1990 Trinity team- they were led by coach Lampley. This is an important factor for two reasons. First, it could be argued that he was the best coach ever in Kentucky high school football. Therefore, even aside from talented players or team chemistry, it is safe to say thatTrinity should have never been outcoached that season. This would be a positive in the discussion as to whether that team was the best team to ever play Kentucky high school football. Second, in analyzing the scores I should have mentioned that although they won seven of their 14 games by two touchdowns or less, coach Lampley did not run scores up. Sometimes teams are touted as the "best ever" in part on the strength of running scores up, particularly against inferior opponents. We see that today with Coach Redmon and Coach Beatty. Lampley coached teams were uniformly well prepared, well coached, and represented their school in a classy manner.

Seven of the fourteen teams "the team considered by many to be the best in Kentucky history" played that year came within two touchdowns of "the greatest". One of those teams was 5-5, the other 5-4 (and one forfeit win).`This is a reatively lackluster record to be acclaimed the greatest. Sometimes our heart and our feelings get in the way of reality and statistics. :lol: As to the non sequitor ""something the best team from last year..."comment, relax. Not every observation about a team not being the greatest ever is an attack on the school. Remember my Copernicus rule: the universe doesn't revolve around your favorite school.

Indeed, that was a Bobby Redmon coached team. And, you are correct that Waggener was a different breed of Cat in those days. However, Doss, whom Trinity defeated 20-12 in 1990, was still a 5-5 team. All I was pointing out is that the team that RunFirst posited as considered by many the best team ever in Kentucky won four games by eight points or less, including Waggener twice. That may make Waggener the second-best team in Kentucky history, and few would argue that assertion.

Interesting post. I intend to research this issue someday when I have time.:lol: That team was an undefeated state 4A champion. However, they won four games by 8 points or less, including Waggener (twice) and Doss. The Doss team was 5-5 and lost one game 34-7.

Would you amplify?

Is it on the web, and if so do you have a link?

I have not heard anything yet about Trinity's first opponent, Montgomery Bell. Any insight on their talent this year? Who is the favorite, and, is there a potential upset?

If memory serves me correctly, and if this is the same youngster, an identical thing happened with him earlier in his career. Prior to his freshman season, in August, he was at St. X, playing linebacker. The coaches wished to move him to another position and he chose to leave the team and St. X and attend Trinity. If so, it is apparent that he really wants to play linebacker and it is a deal breaker if he is not at that position.

You may be correct about the number of returning starters. Either way, it may be a difference without a distinction. Having said all of this, and with tongue firmly in cheek, I venture to state that St. X will head down to Bowling Green, show up for the game, and tried to stumble through it in a manner that hopefully avoids abject humiliation. If X can hold the margin of defeat to within thirty-five points, would you consider the game a successful venture? By the way, this is not a sandbag free zone.

Keep an eye on the upcoming St. X versus Bowling Green opener. This game features a top ranked 3A opponent playing a top ranked 4A opponent. Generally, a 4A team would be favored over a 3A squad, if for nothing else because of the disparity in the numberof male students at the 4A school. However, this game features several interesting exceptions to the rule. 1. St. X traditionally starts the season slowly. 2. The game will be played in Bowling Green (Western Kentucky University). 3. One recent article selected the top twenty-five football players in the state this year. Of those twenty-five, three or four played for Bowling Green and one for St. X. 4. This game is a rematch of last year’s opener and Bowling Green gave St. X all they could handle before falling just short. Bowling Green returns a number of starters; St. X. returns three starters.

I would be surprised if Victor ends up at UL based on his previous analysis of the teams recruiting him, but it may be a good fit. Because of his extraordinary athleticism, I believe he could play at RB in any conference, as well as WR or DB.

Thomam, I also like your out of the box thinking. There are some kinks in this concept, though. One that immediately comes to mind is strength of schedule. All winning percentages are not equal, and some schools would undoubtedly jimmy the system to their advantage. Look at last year's Manual or St. X schedule, then look at other team's schedules from last year. Under your proposal, should Manual or St. X in the future duck the tough discretionary games they now seek out? For example, would it be to Manual's advantage to drop Trinity? Should X drop Highlands, Bowling Green, Trinity and Lex Catholic? These are all discretionary games. Year in and year out this strategy would boost Manual or St. X's winning percentage.

Vaught wrote: No touching Trinity, St. Xavier And just in case you were wondering, by some stroke of luck Trinity and St. Xavier are not in the same Class 6A district. Maybe it's fine to put programs such as Boyle and Lexington Catholic together or place Danville and Bardstown in the same district, but the KHSAA won't touch the sacred cows - Trinity and St. Xavier. If you think it is just a coincidence that these teams were placed in different districts to keep alive a chance of a Trinity-St. Xavier title game, then I want to sell you a sauna to use in this hot weather because you have to be more gullible than anyone I know. Where is Mr. Vaught coming from? If he means that the KHSAA intentionally put St. Xavier and Trinity in different districts in order to preserve a later round matchup or even a state championship game, well....yes. These two rivals in a state championship game bring in more money to the KHSAA coffers. Nothing surprising about that. On the other hand, if he is implying that either of these teams had some sort of influence in "fixing" the districts so they each would have an easier ride until the finals he couldn't be much further off. After all, if X could "fix" the district does he really think X would "fix it" by putting Male and PRP in the district with X?

Maybe somebody can explain to me what this new 6A configuration will solve. As I understand it, the problem was that Trinity and St. X were dominating in football. At the 6A level,Trinity and St. X will still dominate football. What has changed? Would we be going to 6A if there was no Trinity or St. X (or a functional equivalent)? Of course not. Well, even with 6A there is still a Trinity and still a St. X. I am open-minded about this, but I do not see that it solved the ultimate problem.

This is a point I particulerly agree on. No one owes anybody anything. Trinity played their best last year- as they should- and they won. Who would want a title if your opponent dogged it? This is a new year and a new, young team.

Actually you may be surprised at the number of people who drive great distances to attend a Catholic school in Jefferson County. For example, I have seen statistics which show that Trinity high school in Louisville is only 60% Catholic. The 40% of their students that are not Catholic drive in from all over Jefferson County and from Oldham County, Bullitt County, Spencer County, and points further away. If you provide a first-class school and learning environment people will drive past schools that are not high quality to have their children attend a quality school. And that is the nub of what I am proposing. Give parents and students a choice. Surely rural people are no different than urban people in wanting their child to attend the highest quality school possible. Open enrollment across county lines would provide choice and would initiate competition among schools for students. Also, an ancillary benefit would occur in our little world of athletics. Schools could no longer fall back on the excuse that other schools enrolled students from out of county. Everyone would be playing under the same rules. As to your other point regarding cap size on classes, yes, in the abstract smaller classes are more ideal. I recognize this from both undergrad courses and from being closely associated with a number of educators. However, as a product of Catholic grade schools of the 1950s there were several years where my classroom size was above 50 students. I recognize the times were different and that nuns were able to employ certain teaching techniques perhaps not in vogue today, but the children our classes truly learned the subject material.

I agree that we all see the problem in our backyard before we see the problem in our neighbor's backyard. I conjecture that persons out in the state may think that everything that would work for persons out in the state is good for Jefferson County. I also believe you are probably right that open enrollment would not have the same affect in the rural counties as it would in urban schools, although you would be surprised at the number of persons that drive 40 minutes in one direction to attend a Catholic school in Jefferson County. All the same, I believe that competition among schools for students would help rural schools and I believe it would vastly improve urban schools to introduce competition to education (after all, competition has been introduced to medicine, law, and all other segments of our society). Also, my second idea of unlimited financial assistance for any student that may reduce tuition by as much as 100%, thereby potentially making all students public or private pay $0 tuition, seems equitable to all students, rural or private. If these two concepts (open enrollment and unlimited tuition assistance) were implemented statewide many of the obstacles preventing rapprochement between Public and Private schools and supporters would be removed IMO. Your thoughts?

The simplest solution to this imbroglio would be to permit absolute open enrollment statewide. Additionally, any tuition assistance paid by private school should not matter. The maximum that could be paid would be the entire amount of tuition, and that would leave the student and his/her family owing $0 for tuition. This is the same amount of tuition paid by public schools, so what is the difference regarding the amount of aid, even 100%, received by the student of a private school or of a public school? With the introduction of this sort of competition, schools would then have to stand or fall on their own merit. In addition to increasing the quality of our schools, this solution would end the incessant wasting the time debating over recruiting, percentage of tuition assistance permitted, and cross county student enrollments. Would any poster on BGP be opposed to this solution, and if so why?