Henry Steele

Didn't Holmes get to the state tournament one year with Jennings (88 or 89)? I thought they won the region and he had a good showing in a state tournament game. Also, I could be wrong but I thought Corey Pouncey was a freshman on the 90 Holmes squad that got to the finals, which would have made him a 7th grader in 88. The older Pounceys were Alphonso at Holmes and Burt at Holy Cross, and 88 sounds about right for them.

Nice story. Thanks for posting it.

Both quality players. I know Allen is a sophomore; is Sandfoss also?

I think SK lost a few that year to other N.Ky teams. Lots of talent and balance helped prepare them for Sweet Sixteen run. Anybody from Walton (with Burns) or NewCath (Cowens brothers) or Newport (Mayes and Simpson) or CovCath (Turney) want to jump in here?

Little before my time, but always impressive to have two MLB baseball players in the program (Barton (Reds, Expos, etc.) and Leo Foster (Braves, Mets, etc.)) On the theme of guys that went on to baseball careers, one guy that never seems to get mentioned on these basketball threads, but who was an outstanding high school basketball player, was David Justice at Covington Latin in 1982. Probably one of the better Latin teams ever (I know that's a stretch), but besides a future major league all-star, they also had a Draud (Jon) and a Neltner (Scott).

I was gonna mention Shields last team at Highlands - 1988? Wasn't that supposed to be the team he'd waited for and stuck around to coach? But, since we're in that era, shouldn't big Jack Jennings and Holmes get a mention? He put up some Draud-esque numbers and they did get to the Sweet Sixteen one year.

Depaul may have been interested in Schloemer but I think what made Dicky's recruitment and commitment such a big story was because Depaul had just burst out as a national powerhouse with Mark Aguirre in 79 (Final Four) and was undefeated and ranked first in midseason 79-80 when Dicky committed. At the time, when Doug signed with Cincinnati, they were consistently top 20 caliber and had some really good teams. Seemed like a good decision until Gale Catlett left and Ed Badger (not the biggest Schloemer fan by any means) took over.

Great story, and one I had not heard before. If I can bend the thread to a story that I do know, I am surprised that DePaul came back to northern Kentucky after what had happened with Dicky Beal the year before. If you'll indulge me, the story of Dicky's recruitment goes something like this: Entering his senior year, Dicky was too small to get the interest of most D1 schools and was nowhere to be found on any All America lists. Holmes played Summit Country Day in a preseason exhibition game that year, though, and SCD had a D1 player in Dexter Bailey. A number of scouts came to that exhibition and were treated to a tremendously athletic exhibition, including a fast break dunk by Dicky over Bailey. The dunk was captured by an Enquirer photog and ran on the front page of the sports section. After that, Ray Meyer (who was still coaching at DePaul) was at many of Holmes games and locked up a commitment from Dicky to attend DePaul. To give some indication of the magnitude of that, a headline ran on the front page of the Enquirer above the Enquirer banner that said "Beal will play at DePaul". It was a huge story because, as you said, Depaul was at the time one of the top programs in the country. So Beal committed to DePaul and everything went very nice until Joe Hall started coming to see Holmes play. DePaul got worried that Dicky was waffling and had an assistant go almost everywhere with him. Somehow, Dicky let it slip to an Enquirer reporter that he had changed his mind and was going to attend UK. Except he hadn't told DePaul yet. The story goes that when Dicky and the DePaul assistant got off of a plane at the Cincinnati airport, the DePaul assistant read a headline that "Beal will attend UK". Flabbergasted, he said "Dicky, is this true?" Years later, when Dicky was winding up his career at UK, Ray Meyer made a statement that he thought Dicky had made the right choice (I don't know that Dicky or a lot of the rest of us agree), but other things I read and heard over the years indicated that Mr. Meyer felt used and betrayed for a long time.

Great story, and one I had not heard before. If I can bend the thread to a story that I do know, I am surprised that DePaul came back to northern Kentucky after what had happened with Dicky Beal the year before. If you'll indulge me, the story of Dicky's recruitment goes something like this: Entering his senior year, Dicky was too small to get the interest of most D1 schools and was nowhere to be found on any All America lists. Holmes played Summit Country Day in a preseason exhibition game that year, though, and SCD had a D1 player in Dexter Bailey. A number of scouts came to that exhibition and were treated to a tremendously athletic exhibition, including a fast break dunk by Dicky over Bailey. The dunk was captured by an Enquirer photog and ran on the front page of the sports section. After that, Ray Meyer (who was still coaching at DePaul) was at many of Holmes games and locked up a commitment from Dicky to attend DePaul. To give some indication of the magnitude of that, a headline ran on the front page of the Enquirer above the Enquirer banner that said "Beal will play at DePaul". It was a huge story because, as you said, Depaul was at the time one of the top programs in the country. So Beal committed to DePaul and everything went very nice until Joe Hall started coming to see Holmes play. DePaul got worried that Dicky was waffling and had an assistant go almost everywhere with him. Somehow, Dicky let it slip to an Enquirer reporter that he had changed his mind and was going to attend UK. Except he hadn't told DePaul yet. The story goes that when Dicky and the DePaul assistant got off of a plane at the Cincinnati airport, the DePaul assistant read a headline that "Beal will attend UK". Flabbergasted, he said "Dicky, is this true?" Years later, when Dicky was winding up his career at UK, Ray Meyer made a statement that he thought Dicky had made the right choice (I don't know that Dicky or a lot of the rest of us agree), but other things I read and heard over the years indicated that Mr. Meyer felt used and betrayed for a long time.

Todd Whatley was a quality player and a good guy. He was killed tragically on I-75 a couple of years ago. He was a major component on that 80 team - in fact he hit big FT's to seal the triple overtime quarterfinal game against Ashland - still probably one of the greatest Sweet 16 games ever played - that went until like 11:30 or midnight and left Holmes with tired legs the next morning against Owensboro. As for the 90 team, any team that gets to the finals has to be given some consideration as the best from N.Ky., simply because there haven't been that many. Had they not run into a loaded Fairdale team in the finals, and if Anthony Hughes had not had an AWFUL, AWFUL night shooting, we might be debating them vs. SK 81 as the only champs. Too much speculation, I know, but that's mostly what this thread is. But it's fun!

Ouch!

Not a lot of posters that go that far back, but I would like to hear about teams from the 30's-40's-50's-60's. You could certainly find some good ones - I think Dayton, Bellevue and Newport would be heard from a lot more from that era than from the last half century. It was a different game, to be sure, but Dayton High School still can lay claim to the most famous coach to ever set foot in these parts, and maybe the best coach of all-time, John Wooden (that's the guy that the Wooden Trophy is named after, and the same one that coached UCLA to NCAA championships in 64, 65, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73 and 75). Coached at Dayton in the late 30's I believe.

I have heard Mike Listerman (than an assistant at Highlands) tell the story of that regional final and he called it a great upset, but I always thought they were pretty even, maybe even would have given Highlands the edge. Holmes beat them twice during the regular season, but one was at home with Beal hitting a 25 footer to win it and the other was at Highlands when, as you mentioned, the Bluebirds were without Muntis. That 79 Highlands team was quality - Vories was steady and money from the line.

Couldn't agree more about the fast break. Actually I think the 3 pointer has killed that kind of basketball. A couple more names, though. Mark Elmer and Kevin Sebastian, who were the starters with Beal, Walton and Simpson in 80. To stay within the confines of this thread, I would say the 80 team may or may not have been the "best" team from N. Ky., but I don't think there can be much argument that they were the most exciting or high scoring (they AVERAGED over 80 points a game before the 3 pointer!)

St. Henry came out of the region in 2003 and lost in a thriller to the eventual state champ I think, but wasn't their win over Ryle in the regional pretty controversial? Didn't Doellman get his nose broken AND foul out? I seem to recall a lot of discussion about the officiating in that game.

Deja vu all over again. In 1980 a talented Holmes team was poised to run the table and not lose to any northern Kentucky team, and a mediocre NewCath team jumped up and beat the Dicky Beal led team at home. It turned out okay (that turned out to be Holmes' only northern Kentucky loss that year and they cruised the rest of the way all the way to the state semi-finals), but this shows they do something right up on the hill getting ready to play Holmes.

Lots of woulda's and coulda's for sure, but CovCath in 05 lost in regional to a lesser Conner team, which opened the door for the Holmes guys as sophomores to get to the Sweet Sixteen. Holmes had a good showing, just losing to defending champ Warren Central (?) that also went on to be runner up, but I always thought that was the best CovCath team of the last decade or so - Votel was a great post player and they had good guard play - thought they could have made some noise if they'd punched their ticket to Lexington. Another team that did get out of the region but was stunningly disappointing in the Sweet Sixteen was 1984 NewCath (Jimmy Pangallo, others?). They were ranked first in the state for a large part of the season, but got to Rupp and fell apart in the opening round.

Beal came off the bench almost the entire year, certainly the entire regular season and District, behind Dave Derkson. He made the District All Tourney team without even starting a game. Davis was a junior and was an outstanding player. Later played at the same Arkansas school where Scottie Pippen played. I couldn't say for certain they played together but the timing works out where they could have (Davis out of high school in 79, Pippen in 82 or 83). To tie a couple of other comments in this thread together, Holmes was VERY fortunate to get out of the District in 78; they trailed Holy Cross by 14 with 5 minutes to play, and it was primarily the full court pressure of Davis and Beal that brought them back. I have heard the story of that game re-told by Kenny Shields - the guy has great recall considering how many games he has seen, and for that one he was just a spectator.

Was Derkson on the 67 team? And was it his brother (David Derkson) that was the starting point guard, ahead of Dicky Beal, for most of the year for the 78 Bulldogs? The 67 CovCath Schloemer/78 Holmes Schloemer connection is pretty well documented, but I haven't heard the Derkson/Derkson connection discussed.

Big guy was Tony Malik. Based on where they went out of high school, I think you've gotta go with the 78 Bulldogs - two big time Div 1 players (Schloemer and Beal) and at least a few others (Walton, Davis, Moeves, Wimzie) who played at the next level. I do appreciate that the 81 Pioneers are the only ones with a trophy, though, so they've got an awfully good argument that they were the best. I think it's best resolved by pointing out that the years 78-81 were easily the four best years in the history of northern Kentucky basketball, with a state champ (81), state runner up (78), state semi finalist (80) and two scholarship players to UK (Beal and McKinley). I don't recall what happened with the 79 Highlands (Muntis, Vories, Sullivan) team in the state tournament - did they win one and go out in the quarter finals?

I could be wrong, but I don't recall the 1977 team having that good of a record. Didn't they lose twice to Newport with Mitch McIntosh and then in the Sweet 16 to Murray? That's all I can come up with from memory, but it seemed like they lost more than just those 3. I could be wrong, though.

With all due respect to the Rice, Hill, Jefferson, Henderson team (and even if you throw in guys like Mike Hester, Nate Edmondson, etc. with a connection that might have been included) I'll still take the 1978 squad as the most talented group - Two big time D1 players among best 5 in northern Kentucky history (Schloemer, Beal) and at least a few others (Wimzie, Walton, Moeves, Davis) that had good careers at the next level. Hard to argue with a high school team that produces that level of talent.

Two additional observations: first, Hurt's shot rattled around the rim a bit before dropping through and it only tied the game, sending it into overtime, while Laettner's was a walk-off swish, and second, if you look at the four years of northern Kentucky basketball from 1978-1981, I don't think you can even find anything close to such a successful run, because not only is that period bookended by the Holmes' 1978 squad (that but for Charlie Hurt won the state) and the Simon Kenton 1981 team that won the state, you also had a very good Highlands team in 1979 with Muntis, Vories and Sullivan and a 1980 Holmes team led by Dicky Beal that got to the semifinals and ran out of gas after a triple overtime win over Ashland late on Friday night. Anybody got any comparable periods?

Tough to explain the recent history of Holmes/CovCath, but here's my feeble effort.... Two years ago, Holmes had four talented underclassmen and a senior. CovCath had Votel, who was a beast, and beat Holmes in two great games, at the least the second of which, in the District finals, came down to a last second shot by Votel. Votel was clearly the best player on the floor, and was the difference at the end of the day. It would have been a great regional final that year had the Colonels not lost to a sub-par Conner team. Last year, pre-disintegation by Holmes, they played a regular season game at Holmes that was never in doubt. I recall the score being fairly close at the end, but I would bet that anyone that was there would recall that Holmes jumped out to a huge lead and then gave some of it back (as they almost always do) but that the outcome was really never in doubt and that it was obvious who the better team on the floor was that night. Up through February of last year Holmes talent was playing at a high level, at least until after they beat Highlands (who was at the time ranked ahead of CCH). That is when the Holmes meltdown occurred and I don't think Holmes has ever really recovered. After that, Holmes and CCH played in the district last year, Holmes was in complete disarray and CCH was the far better team and won going away. This year, I would say it would be fair to say Holmes has continued to be in disarray, and last night was really the first time these two met at full strength. Both teams have talented players, and I think that we would all agree that CCH has gotten more out of their talent. For those of us that have watched Holmes teams for many years, we are scratching our heads and wondering what happened because, after they won the region in 05, we expected a three peat and dynasty reminiscent of the Schloemer/Beal days. The talent and athleticism certainly seem to be there, but the mental component that those guys (Schloemer, Wimzie, Malik, Moeves, Davis, Beal, Walton, Simpson, Elmer, etc.) had seems to be missing, at least some of the time, with the current crop. If both teams can survive the first two rounds of the regional next week, it will be a great game to watch. I just hope Holmes and CCH both get there and bring their A games, because I am not sure we have seen that happen very often in the past 3 years.