Jump to content

Missouri Law: Teachers Cannot Be "Friends" With Students


Clyde

Recommended Posts

So you've never heard of a "he said she said" lawsuit or charge? You've never heard of a teacher having his/her personal and professional reputation besmirched unfairly? As an administrator I can't eliminate EVERY possible problem but the easy one would be to eliminate friending students on FB.

 

You disagree? Cool. I ain't mad at ya.

 

Have you ever heard of "micro-managing"? That's what you are doing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 183
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Two ways of answering this: "Come across?" : Underage drinking by students. Seeing students passed out. Seeing students using drugs or talking about using drugs. Sexual situations. Your likely response is "we hear about that stuff all the time." You have plausible deniability when you hear about it. You do not have that when it's on your news feed on FB. Second: Some teachers will be having private conversations/chats with students that are inappropriate at best which we already have seen happen.

 

In EITHER situation the school is now in a situation where they are potentially liable in a lawsuit brought by an unhappy parent.

 

I can't imagine any of this is a surprise to you.

 

You still have not answered any of my inquiries as to why you let the students dictate where you the teacher goes to provide assistance. Why do you let them control the situation? Why can't you dictate the terms?

 

They can do this by texting or emailing. Do we prohibit teachers from texting or emailing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you ever heard of "micro-managing"? That's what you are doing.

 

Irrelevant to the discussion. Leaders often have to make unpopular calls. Your head is buried in the sand if you don't think this will become more common as problems continue to surface.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They can do this by texting or emailing. Do we prohibit teachers from texting or emailing?

 

It's funny you ask. I read an article just today where a large county in FL is wrestling with texting.

 

No issues with emailing because you'd be emailing on the school's email network which the school can monitor if it felt necessary.

 

I would have a rule that teachers cannot email from their private accounts with students. All electronic communication would take place within school systems.

 

Texting is a tough one. As I said earlier it's not possible to eliminate ALL potential problems. I'm not sure why that fact is so difficult to comprehend. You seem to be saying "you should have no rules because you cannot stop all potential problems." I don't buy that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed on both points.

 

My simple point is that if the school administration can come up with a way that lessens or eliminates the potential for problems why not go that route? The "FB is where the kids are" argument just doesn't work for me. A kid will go where they are led if they want help. It's as simple as that. The individual teacher might not like it ie TB&G but my job as an administrator would be to look out for the best interest of the school and taxpayers. It's a no-brainer to me especially when there are alternatives out there.

 

You disagree how?

 

Your job as an administrator should be to ensure that the students are receiving quality education. You do this by holding teachers accountable and making sure that the students are getting what they need. By doing this, you are looking out for the best interest of everyone. You need to get rid of your fears of lawsuits and not try to micro-manage every situation. People will sue no matter what you do but if you (administrators) are holding those under you accountable and following policy, then that's all you can do. I been there, done that, lived it and survived all of it because policy was followed and employees were dealt with accordingly. I know, coming from a background of education, most educational administrators do not like conflict (it's just not in their blood), that's why some school systems struggle with holding their personnel accountable. But if they hold people accountable to following policy/procedures, things will be fine. No need to micro-manage or try to dictate every move.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's funny you ask. I read an article just today where a large county in FL is wrestling with texting.

 

No issues with emailing because you'd be emailing on the school's email network which the school can monitor if it felt necessary.

 

I would have a rule that teachers cannot email from their private accounts with students. All electronic communication would take place within school systems.

 

Texting is a tough one. As I said earlier it's not possible to eliminate ALL potential problems. I'm not sure why that fact is so difficult to comprehend. You seem to be saying "you should have no rules because you cannot stop all potential problems." I don't buy that.

 

Looks like the only interactions you would permit, if you were a school administrator, would be face-to-face with at least one witness present.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your job as an administrator should be to ensure that the students are receiving quality education. You do this by holding teachers accountable and making sure that the students are getting what they need. By doing this, you are looking out for the best interest of everyone. You need to get rid of your fears of lawsuits and not try to micro-manage every situation. People will sue no matter what you do but if you (administrators) are holding those under you accountable and following policy, then that's all you can do. I been there, done that, lived it and survived all of it because policy was followed and employees were dealt with accordingly. I know, coming from a background of education, most educational administrators do not like conflict (it's just not in their blood), that's why some school systems struggle with holding their personnel accountable. But if they hold people accountable to following policy/procedures, things will be fine. No need to micro-manage or try to dictate every move.

 

It's naive to say that an administrator needs to get rid of his/her fear of lawsuits. It's also naive to say "just hold them accountable." "Accountable" is a reactive action. I choose to be proactive and eliminate threats of problems. I don't expect you as a teacher to like my position. I come at it from a business/management perspective. You and others do not.

 

You and others still have not shown how moving away from FB is a threat to academic performance. Please do not repeat the "that's where the kids are " mantra. Come with something substantive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like the only interactions you would permit, if you were a school administrator, would be face-to-face with at least one witness present.

 

I'd enforce the "leave your door open" policy that is probably common today. The only time I'd require a witness would be in disciplinary cases or cases where certain parts of the human body were involved.

 

I'd require school email to be used. No personal email communication with students.

 

I'd ban FB friendships.

 

I'd have to think long and hard about texting. Not sure on that one.

 

I would then show that FB is not the end-all-be-all to any teacher that doubted me.

 

There is plenty of technology out there that can accomplish EXACTLY what good right-minded teachers are trying to accomplish.

 

If they continued to fight me we'd have a come-to-Jesus discussion.

 

Your rebuttal?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. Let's be clear. I am not an administrator. I said "if I was....."

 

2. Your drunk driving argument IMO has no merit in this debate. My first thought was that the law was good. I then retracted a bit and said it should be a condition of employment set by each school. Conditions of employment often are aimed at the 1%. Your logic fails IMO because my main argument as an administrator would be to protect the pocketbook of my employees and my school district. Who's pocketbook would we be protecting if we outlawed driving? I am making very specific arguments vs your generalization.

 

3. I've fallen into the trap previously as well of trying to apply logic used in a specific point to everything and anything. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it does not. Your seemingly logical attempt did not work. Apples and oranges based simply on who I'm trying to protect.

 

4. If you want a real-world situation that would reflect the 99%/1% look at school prayer. We are protecting the rights of the 1%.

 

1. I thought you said you WERE an administrator. My apologies. I misread that part.

2. Your argument is invalid in its inception as it relates to 1st amendment issues (IMO).

3. The "prayer in school" argument is one that I've always disagreed with because there is no element of forced prayer. In other words, I disagree with the courts' interpretation (or mis-interpretation as the case may be) of freedom of religion vs. freedom from religion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. I thought you said you WERE an administrator. My apologies. I misread that part.

2. Your argument is invalid in its inception as it relates to 1st amendment issues (IMO).

3. The "prayer in school" argument is one that I've always disagreed with because there is no element of forced prayer. In other words, I disagree with the courts' interpretation (or mis-interpretation as the case may be) of freedom of religion vs. freedom from religion.

 

No sweat.

 

Haven't the courts shown that students/teachers lose some of the 1st Amendment rights. Same with employer/employee relationship?

 

I wasn't debating the merit of school prayer. I used it as an example to show that we already have laws aimed at the 1%.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's naive to say that an administrator needs to get rid of his/her fear of lawsuits. It's also naive to say "just hold them accountable." "Accountable" is a reactive action. I choose to be proactive and eliminate threats of problems. I don't expect you as a teacher to like my position. I come at it from a business/management perspective. You and others do not.

 

You and others still have not shown how moving away from FB is a threat to academic performance. Please do not repeat the "that's where the kids are " mantra. Come with something substantive.

 

No matter how hard you try to eliminate threats of problems, you still have to hold people "accountable". That's not being reactive, that's being a good administrator/manager. I usually agree with most of the things you say on BGP, but I have to say that you are not in touch with reality and really have no grasp on where the kids are today. With that being said, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. No hard feelings, just different thoughts. Maybe if all kids were home schooled, that would eliminate the potential inappropriate behavior and potential lawsuits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No matter how hard you try to eliminate threats of problems, you still have to hold people "accountable". That's not being reactive, that's being a good administrator/manager. I usually agree with most of the things you say on BGP, but I have to say that you are not in touch with reality and really have no grasp on where the kids are today. With that being said, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. No hard feelings, just different thoughts. Maybe if all kids were home schooled, that would eliminate the potential inappropriate behavior and potential lawsuits.

 

I didn't say I wouldn't hold people accountable. I said I wouldn't use that as a "hope" strategy. Big difference. Everyone is accountable.

 

I challenge you to tell me why I have no grasp on where kids are today. I know they're on social media. So what? If they all hung out on porn sites would that be where I should expect teachers to put their updates?

 

Never any hard feelings unless you call me ugly or stupid. You're on a long list of people that have disagreed with me over the years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd enforce the "leave your door open" policy that is probably common today. The only time I'd require a witness would be in disciplinary cases or cases where certain parts of the human body were involved.

 

I'd require school email to be used. No personal email communication with students.

 

I'd ban FB friendships.

 

I'd have to think long and hard about texting. Not sure on that one.

 

I would then show that FB is not the end-all-be-all to any teacher that doubted me.

 

There is plenty of technology out there that can accomplish EXACTLY what good right-minded teachers are trying to accomplish.

 

If they continued to fight me we'd have a come-to-Jesus discussion.

 

Your rebuttal?

 

Man, do you know how many offices/classrooms are islotated and not within earshot of anyone? Having the door opened or closed would not matter in these circumstances. And there's some situations where you want the door closed because of the content matter that no one else needs to hear. If you are a school personnel (administrator, counselor, teacher, family resource, etc), I would think you would know this.

 

Can't believe you would ban personal email but are not sure about texting. What is the difference?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your job as an administrator should be to ensure that the students are receiving quality education. You do this by holding teachers accountable and making sure that the students are getting what they need. By doing this, you are looking out for the best interest of everyone. You need to get rid of your fears of lawsuits and not try to micro-manage every situation. People will sue no matter what you do but if you (administrators) are holding those under you accountable and following policy, then that's all you can do. I been there, done that, lived it and survived all of it because policy was followed and employees were dealt with accordingly. I know, coming from a background of education, most educational administrators do not like conflict (it's just not in their blood), that's why some school systems struggle with holding their personnel accountable. But if they hold people accountable to following policy/procedures, things will be fine. No need to micro-manage or try to dictate every move.

 

Best post in this thread, by far. :thumb: I've worked for micro-managers and I've worked for administrators that focused on the important things (education) and held staff to professional standards. You and I know which of those groups does the better job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Man, do you know how many offices/classrooms are islotated and not within earshot of anyone? Having the door opened or closed would not matter in these circumstances. And there's some situations where you want the door closed because of the content matter that no one else needs to hear. If you are a school personnel (administrator, counselor, teacher, family resource, etc), I would think you would know this.

 

Can't believe you would ban personal email but are not sure about texting. What is the difference?

 

I realize there are times when the door needs to be closed. Someone mentioned earlier that it happens with a principal or counselor. My comment, worded poorly, was aimed at a teacher/student one-on-one meeting in the teacher's classroom.

 

As to email vs texting: Why would there be any reason to have a teacher not use their school email account when communicating with a student? I can think of none.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using the site you agree to our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use Policies.