Manny Harris and Samardo Samuels weren't logging 30+ minutes a night when Lebron was on the Cavs. Ryan Hollins got 16 minutes, who the heck is that? The Cavs didn't have a supporting cast as good as some others but lets not go overboard this isn't close to the same team.

I honestly thought Samuels was playing in Europe. Ryan Hollins sounds like he would be in a boy band... maybe he is? No clue who he is.

Manny Harris and Samardo Samuels weren't logging 30+ minutes a night when Lebron was on the Cavs. Ryan Hollins got 16 minutes, who the heck is that? The Cavs didn't have a supporting cast as good as some others but lets not go overboard this isn't close to the same team.

 

When healthy it is, they have everybody except Delonte and Shaq (oooo big losses) back that is of any significance. Jamison has played like an all star and they have still only won one game in the past three months.

I wasn't just talking about last night, I'm talking for the entire season. When this season is over with the same key contributors for the Cavs are going to be all the guys that were around while Bron' was except for like I said, Delonte West and Shaq. They are still going to be vying for the number one pick in the lottery at seasons end even at full strength lets face it.

 

 

 

I honestly cannot believe that you guys are still down playing the demise of the Cavs this season as far as not having as much to do with losing Lebron. It should be obvious.

When healthy it is, they have everybody except Delonte and Shaq (oooo big losses) back that is of any significance. Jamison has played like an all star and they have still only won one game in the past three months.

 

But they aren't healthy and Big Z as well.

I wasn't just talking about last night, I'm talking for the entire season. When this season is over with the same key contributors for the Cavs are going to be all the guys that were around while Bron' was except for like I said, Delonte West and Shaq. They are still going to be vying for the number one pick in the lottery at seasons end even at full strength lets face it.

 

 

 

I honestly cannot believe that you guys are still down playing the demise of the Cavs this season as far as not having as much to do with losing Lebron. It should be obvious.

 

Come on now...

I honestly thought Samuels was playing in Europe. Ryan Hollins sounds like he would be in a boy band... maybe he is? No clue who he is.

 

I believe he played at UCLA.

Come on now...

 

Seriously you don't think that is what has to mostly do with it? I mean Delonte West (8 or 9th man in Bostons rotation), Shaq, I mean hes Shaq, not the old Shaq, but today Shaq. Then Z, who didn't even play that much last year, they even went as far to trade him in the Wizards deal because they knew the Wizards would waive him!!!! And its not like the Wizards have a ton of talent on the blocks.

 

 

This team had the best record in the NBA for the past two seasons, now they are fighting for the worst. Every NBA team gets bit by the injury bug so you cannot use that as the main reason. Whether you want to face it or not, Lebron James was that team, he meant so much to that team that it is unreal.

Exactly, exactly, exactly!!!!

 

 

I have been saying this for the past three seasons now. The Cavs have had the best regular season record the past two seasons, they are now fighting for the number one pick in next years draft. Whats missing from that team? Hmmm lets see? Oh thats right, that selfish, non team, all about myself guy, Lebron. I'm telling you and I have been telling everyone, Lebron James is the most "complete" player in basketball. There is no one who can come close. You put Kobe on the same team and he may not even make the playoffs. Everyone saw where the Lakers were at while Shaq was there, after he left, then when they brought in Gasol. Without the stud big man, Kobe always had far superior talent playing with him than Lebron did in Cleveland. Without question. At the end of the day Lebron made the Finals with a team that had no business being there. He has had the Cavs in the title conversation the past three seasons, and they had no business being there.

 

Imagine if super brilliant Dan Gilbert would have made the Amare trade last season. JJ Hickson? That was the snag in the trade, JJ Hickson, you didn't want to let him go to get Amare for the rest of the season. Instead you make the cheap move and bag Jamison for less instead? He makes that trade, there is a chance he could have brought them both back (depending on how last season would have ended in that situation). Without that trade, he had no chance, and we all saw that was the case.

 

Just not the same talent level Lebron was playing with the way some of these guys are, and he was still putting in work and getting his team places. Then when he makes the unselfish decision to go play with two other star players he is a monster? I just don't get it. Kobe fans kill me with all this non sense. I know hes good yes, I know he has the rings, yes. He does, I know that, you make it clear, he makes it clear. BUT, you give Lebron what Kobe has had, team, coach, everything. You swap roles, and lets see what you get. That cannot happen, but now Lebron is finally in a more comparable environment so we can see what happens from here. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, but I just think all the hate for Lebron is baseless. People are always trying to crush him for the smallest things. Kobe had a rape case, a rape case! Kobe tries to bite MJ, he is the biggest MJ bitter there has ever been but still people find a lot more ways to hate on Lebron than they do Kobe, and those who hate the most are Kobe fans. I just don't get it, won't get it. I will never hate Kobe like that, even though he is far from my favorite player I recognize how good he is, I respect him, I like to watch him play. But Lebron just gets hated on more than any player I have ever saw, and I will never understand it? What am I missing?

 

You really need to let the Kobe hate go. When a thread about the Lakers smashing the Cavs becomes about Kobe vs LeBron then all I can do is shake my head. Come on dolamite, you sound like every other Kobe hater. I do not hate LeBron. I loved his tweet I just wish he would had been man enough to mention Gilbert. Other than the time he made the tweet(during the 4th quarter) who knows what he could have been talking about. He could claim to be talking about his Baby's Momma for all we know. But back to Kobe, yes, the Lakers weren't world beaters immediatey after Shaq left but they still went to the playoffs most years but who was in his roster that could beat the Spurs, Suns, Mavs, etc? Until they got Gasol he had little help. You are also forgetting that after Eagle, Co that Kobe was a social and media pariah and was vilified by everyone with a pen or a mic as a selfish MJ wannabe who didn't trust his teammates and wouldn't pass them the ball. It wasn't until the Lakers made the Finals with Gasol 3 years ago that he become loved socially and by the media again. He was a castoff and blamed for the destruction of LA for 3-4 years, the Andrew Bynum video, demands of a trade, etc etc. Kobe has overcome a lot and he is in a great spot now because he is winning rings. Once LeBron wins some rings then the evident flaws in his personality will be overlooked. I really don't know what you are searching for in your Kobe vs LeBron arguments but you should really let it go. Two different guys with two different attitudes with two different career paths. There really is no way to contrast or compare and come up with an unbiased answer to your argument.

Seriously you don't think that is what has to mostly do with it? I mean Delonte West (8 or 9th man in Bostons rotation), Shaq, I mean hes Shaq, not the old Shaq, but today Shaq. Then Z, who didn't even play that much last year, they even went as far to trade him in the Wizards deal because they knew the Wizards would waive him!!!! And its not like the Wizards have a ton of talent on the blocks.

 

 

This team had the best record in the NBA for the past two seasons, now they are fighting for the worst. Every NBA team gets bit by the injury bug so you cannot use that as the main reason. Whether you want to face it or not, Lebron James was that team, he meant so much to that team that it is unreal.

 

Well obviously Lebron is the biggest reason they aren't good. You act like we don't think that.

Well obviously Lebron is the biggest reason they aren't good. You act like we don't think that.

 

Yeah but virtually one player being the difference in a team competing for a title and team competing for worst record in the league? I feel that you guys know he was the significant factor in the demise but still do not value his credentials on the basketball court the way they should be valued. So many times people have insinuated things such as Lebron being a selfish player and a me first guy and that is just not the case. IMO he is the "ultimate team guy".

You really need to let the Kobe hate go. When a thread about the Lakers smashing the Cavs becomes about Kobe vs LeBron then all I can do is shake my head. Come on dolamite, you sound like every other Kobe hater. I do not hate LeBron. I loved his tweet I just wish he would had been man enough to mention Gilbert. Other than the time he made the tweet(during the 4th quarter) who knows what he could have been talking about. He could claim to be talking about his Baby's Momma for all we know. But back to Kobe, yes, the Lakers weren't world beaters immediatey after Shaq left but they still went to the playoffs most years but who was in his roster that could beat the Spurs, Suns, Mavs, etc? Until they got Gasol he had little help. You are also forgetting that after Eagle, Co that Kobe was a social and media pariah and was vilified by everyone with a pen or a mic as a selfish MJ wannabe who didn't trust his teammates and wouldn't pass them the ball. It wasn't until the Lakers made the Finals with Gasol 3 years ago that he become loved socially and by the media again. He was a castoff and blamed for the destruction of LA for 3-4 years, the Andrew Bynum video, demands of a trade, etc etc. Kobe has overcome a lot and he is in a great spot now because he is winning rings. Once LeBron wins some rings then the evident flaws in his personality will be overlooked. I really don't know what you are searching for in your Kobe vs LeBron arguments but you should really let it go. Two different guys with two different attitudes with two different career paths. There really is no way to contrast or compare and come up with an unbiased answer to your argument.

 

Like I said in my post I do not hate Kobe. And I wasn't talking to every single Kobe fan just the majority and the majority of Kobe fans hate Lebron. Basically to put short what I almost wrote a book about is that I feel it is very unjustified for all of these haters to constantly bash Lebron for everything and not give him the respect he has IMO earned on the basketball floor. I didn't mean to turn this thread into a Kobe/Lebron thread, I didn't want that at all. But after Lebron came up in the thread and after the usual bashing that comes with it, I had to say something.

I have no problem with LBJ's comments. He would have been better off keeping his mouth shut, but it doesn't bother me at all. Then again, I'm not one of the people who looks for a chance to rip LBJ at every possible opportunity.

Yeah but virtually one player being the difference in a team competing for a title and team competing for worst record in the league? I feel that you guys know he was the significant factor in the demise but still do not value his credentials on the basketball court the way they should be valued. So many times people have insinuated things such as Lebron being a selfish player and a me first guy and that is just not the case. IMO he is the "ultimate team guy".

Once again this isn't close to the team Lebron had. Obviously Lebron was a huge part of that team being good. This team that played the Lakers is the worst team in the league not a healthy Cavs team. They still aren't good either way.

You really need to back off the LeBron love man...It's getting thick in here. :lol:

 

When did LeBron have his team competing for a ring? Couldn't have been 2 years ago when the Magic waxed them in the ECFs or last year when he quit on the Cavs in the 2nd round....Or are you talking about the year he made the finals only to get embarrassed in 4 straight by the Spurs? I'm still struggling to see when LeBron's "team" ever realistically competed for the title...:idunno:

You really need to back off the LeBron love man...It's getting thick in here. :lol:

 

When did LeBron have his team competing for a ring? Couldn't have been 2 years ago when the Magic waxed them in the ECFs or last year when he quit on the Cavs in the 2nd round....Or are you talking about the year he made the finals only to get embarrassed in 4 straight by the Spurs? I'm still struggling to see when LeBron's "team" ever realistically competed for the title...:idunno:

 

Didn't the Cavs have the best record in the regular season? Say what you want about LBJ, but the Cavs were a threat to win it all with LBJ.

 

With that said, I always thought they were a notch below the Celtics.