You make the call - Baseball Ruling - Help Needed

[buzzard22]

Lets throw a wrinkle into it. 1st and 2nd or bases loaded...Same thing, ball in air. Umpire yells infield fly rule. Batter is out. This happened to me in Fastpitch game last year. I argued, infield fly IF FAIR....ball rolled foul. I lost the argument but I think I was right foul ball. Mine was between catcher and pitcher, and it hit ground without hitting anybody and rolled foul because of backspin. ....

[Clyde]

Lets throw a wrinkle into it. 1st and 2nd or bases loaded...Same thing, ball in air. Umpire yells infield fly rule. Batter is out. This happened to me in Fastpitch game last year. I argued, infield fly IF FAIR....ball rolled foul. I lost the argument but I think I was right foul ball. Mine was between catcher and pitcher, and it hit ground without hitting anybody and rolled foul because of backspin. ....

 

You were right. IFF is only "if fair." I believe umpires are instructed to yell "IFF if fair."

[The Scribe]

If fair meaning where the ball hits or If fair meaning where the ball ends up?

[Old Ref]

If you ever notice, most 1B and 3B umpires will take their initial position in Foul Ground. That way, they know if the ball hits them without moving OR if they move away from the field of play, the ball is foul without having to look down at the chalk.

 

You might want to re-think that logic. The batted ball may very well hit in foul territory way past the bag, but if the grounded ball passes over 1st or 3rd...you still have a fair ball. I have seen umpires on several occasions have to dodge the ball and they be standing in foul territory.

[RiverDog]

Even peaches gets this

[Clyde]

You were right. IFF is only "if fair." I believe umpires are instructed to yell "IFF if fair."

 

If fair meaning where the ball hits or If fair meaning where the ball ends up?

 

 

You can't have an IFF on a foul ball. Since we have a foul ball in this case you cannot have an IFF.

[jpa2825]

You might want to re-think that logic. The batted ball may very well hit in foul territory way past the bag, but if the grounded ball passes over 1st or 3rd...you still have a fair ball. I have seen umpires on several occasions have to dodge the ball and they be standing in foul territory.

 

Key is that while an umpire doesn't want to come into contact with any batted ball, he clearly doesn't want to come into contact with a ball that would have been foul, but ends up being fair because it hit him. Starting in foul territory and not moving toward fair insures that won't happen. Also, you don't want to try to get out of the way, make contact and then have no idea whether the ball that just hit you was fair or foul. Starting in foul territory and not moving toward fair insures that won't happen.

 

The scenario you cited happened in yesterday's Reds game. Batted ball grounds over 3B in fair territory and then hit Country Joe West in foul territory. Other difference is that the fair/foul call is already made before it hits you if it is a grounder.

 

Just some good fundamentals.

[Coachg13207]

You were right. IFF is only "if fair." I believe umpires are instructed to yell "IFF if fair."

 

Doesn't the rule read now that it has to be caught with reasonable effort? Say if a player has to make a dive for a pop up in the infield it is not ruled an IFF?

[Voice of Reason]

Doesn't the rule read now that it has to be caught with reasonable effort? Say if a player has to make a dive for a pop up in the infield it is not ruled an IFF?

 

That has always been the rule. The umpire should only call IFF when IN HIS JUDGMENT an infielder should catch the ball with "ordinary effort". It is a judgment call by the umpire and the "ordinary effort" part is where his judgment comes into play.

[jpa2825]

That has always been the rule. The umpire should only call IFF when IN HIS JUDGMENT an infielder should catch the ball with "ordinary effort". It is a judgment call by the umpire and the "ordinary effort" part is where his judgment comes into play.

 

I always found it fun when a sky-high popup went up behind the 2B and I called IFF and then the RF trotted in, called off the 2B and caught the ball (or worse yet, had it bounce off his glove). Without fail, everyone would start screaming "It's not an infield fly if the outfielder catches / boots it." Of course, if the 2B could have caught the ball with "ordinary effort" it doesn't matter who catches it or if anyone catches it. In fact, I think it is reasonable coaching (although a bit hokey) to let your IFs intentionally drop balls after they have heard the IFF rule declared by the Ump just to see if any of the runners will get nervous and try to run to the next base. (Of course, half the time the defense throws to the next base and doesn't apply the tag as if it is a force play and the runners are safe.)