How many of the civilian deaths are due to the "heroic" actions of the palisteinans hiding among civilians? As long as Hamas exists Palestine will get zero sympathy from me.

 

What's interesting to me is how the Arab world acts outraged about the plight of their brothers in Palestine, yet they do nothing to help them.

 

All they do is use them to manipulate political and media sentiments.

I cannot see how my enumeration of Israel's flaws makes my points any more relevant... especially when you are doing sich a fine job pointing them out.

 

The reason I mentioned land mass in earlier posts is the fact that the so-called poor down and out Palestinians could have been easily assimilated 60 years ago by their charitable Muslim brothers... but no one wanted them. They have been more valuable as pawns on the world stage... a political football kicked around by evil manipulators.

 

I know for a fact that "peace loving/law abiding" Palestinians have been treated as well if not better in Israel than than are in any other nation... 20% of the Israeli population are Arabs (that's one in five Israelis for those of you keeping score at home.) There is a much higher percentage of Arabs in the population of Israel than there are Jewish people in the population of any Arab nation. And yet we keep hearing how the Israelis need to be more tolerant... primarily from intolerant neighbors and enemies.

 

Please tell me how the problem at its very root isn't simply the very fact that there are many upset that Jews exist at all... ??????

 

:thumb:

 

Exactly. The Arab world doesn't want this problem settled.

Fastbreak, we're just going to have to agree that we see this different ways. But there is one issue that no one has mentioned yet that might be the most important- Jews will be outnumbered by Palestinians within the next 10 years. Once that tipping point is reached, it could get ugly for Israel unless peace is reached sooner, rather than later.

Fastbreak, we're just going to have to agree that we see this different ways. But there is one issue that no one has mentioned yet that might be the most important- Jews will be outnumbered by Palestinians within the next 10 years. Once that tipping point is reached, it could get ugly for Israel unless peace is reached sooner, rather than later.

Forgive me for reading between the lines ahead of the class lesson plan, but what you describe sounds awfully like "extortion" to me. Play nice (our way) now... or else.

^I'm just saying that violence will rise once Israelis become outnumbered, especially in (illegal) West Bank settlements.

^I'm just saying that violence will rise once Israelis become outnumbered, especially in (illegal) West Bank settlements.

It's interesting that you so confidently point out the certainty of increased violence by Arabs against Jews as if it is to be expected as soon as numbers permit. But the Israelis are wrong for taking every necessary step to defend themselves in an incredibly hostile region... as if it is the actions of the Israelis to defend themselves that are precipitating the violence. It seems your viewpoint is, "They had it coming."

 

I asked you before... I'm asking again... "What in your opinion should the Israelis be doing differently."

 

You are gifted at pointing out everything they're doing wrong... what in you opinion could they do right?

The reason I mentioned land mass in earlier posts is the fact that the so-called poor down and out Palestinians could have been easily assimilated 60 years ago by their charitable Muslim brothers... but no one wanted them. They have been more valuable as pawns on the world stage... a political football kicked around by evil manipulators.

 

And that's a terrible argument. So when millions of Palestinians were kicked off their land to make room for Israelis, they should have just gone quietly? Moreoever, their Arab neighbors just should have accepted millions of refugees without complaint? If this war in Mexico caused millions of Mexicans en masse to cross into the United States we should just accept them? I don't think you really see it that way.

 

On top of that, you do realize that about more than half of Jordan's population is Palestinian, right? So her neighbors have done their part.

It's interesting that you so confidently point out the certainty of increased violence by Arabs against Jews as if it is to be expected as soon as numbers permit. But the Israelis are wrong for taking every necessary step to defend themselves in an incredibly hostile region... as if it is the actions of the Israelis to defend themselves that are precipitating the violence. It seems your viewpoint is, "They had it coming."

 

I asked you before... I'm asking again... "What in your opinion should the Israelis be doing differently."

 

You are gifted at pointing out everything they're doing wrong... what in you opinion could they do right?

 

Not saying it's right or wrong (it's probably wrong), but if you think about it, it's a lot like those IDF commandos fast roping down to the boat- they were clearly outnumbered and it inspired nothing more than a mob mentality.

 

And I have already answered this question when you asked it the first time. Israel needs to stop the settlements. That's what this new round of issues clearly hinge on.

Israel Navy: 3 commandos nearly taken hostage in Gaza flotilla raid

During Israel's takeover of a Turkish ship in the Gaza-bound aid flotilla this week, some passengers tried to take captive three commandos who lost consciousness as a result of the activists' blows, according to early findings of a navy investigation. The three were dragged into one of the passenger halls below deck and were held there for several minutes.

 

After dozens of other commandos began searching the ship, the Mavi Marmara, the three soldiers regained consciousness and managed to join their comrades.

 

Post-operation assessments have the number of hard-core activists involved in the fighting at between 60 and 100. It appears that they were well trained and experienced, especially in view of the arsenal found and code books used to pass on orders from group leaders. Among the rioters, in addition to Turks, were Yemenis, Afghans and one person from Eritrea. All were apparently experienced in hand-to-hand fighting. Some of them did not retreat when shots were fired.

And that's a terrible argument. So when millions of Palestinians were kicked off their land to make room for Israelis, they should have just gone quietly?

For one so well versed on geopolitical matters, Muslim factions and other matters in the Middle East and so eager to point out "poor research" you whiffed on this one.

 

Every acceptable estimate identifies between 650,000 and 750,000 affected Palestinians in 1948. A large number to be sure, but certainly not the "millions" you claim. Of these roughly 25% chose to remain in the newly formed state of Israel.

 

The intentions of the Jewish Israelis may be summarized by this quote from David Ben-Gurion, soon to become Israel’s first prime minister, argued in December 1947:

 

"If the Arab citizen will feel at home in our state, . . . if the state will help him in a truthful and dedicated way to reach the economic, social, and cultural level of the Jewish community, then Arab distrust will accordingly subside and a bridge will be built to a Semitic, Jewish-Arab alliance."

 

Doesn't sound as bad as it's been made out to be.

 

Here’s a link to an interesting article summarized as follows:

 

“The recent declassification of millions of documents from the period of the British Mandate (1920-1948) and Israel’s early days, documents untapped by earlier generations of writers and ignored or distorted by the “new historians,” paint a much more definitive picture of the historical record. They reveal that the claim of dispossession is not only completely unfounded but the inverse of the truth. What follows is based on fresh research into these documents, which contain many facts and data hitherto unreported.”

 

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/1948--israel--and-the-palestinians-br--the-true-story-11355

 

Let me know what you think… :thumb:

The Arabs are only trying to provoke a fight with Israel so they can furher push for a Palestinan state. Israel has every right to stop the boats adn make sure they are not carrying weapons. It isnt like if it is food that Israel is going ot destroy it.

Pehaps hyperbole got the best of me, but the fact remains that hundreds of thousands were pushed off their land.

 

The reason I pressed you earlier on specifics about what Israel is doing wrong is because I want to know that you just don't blindly believe everything they do is right. But you ignoring the settlement issue makes me think that's the case.

Pehaps hyperbole got the best of me, but the fact remains that hundreds of thousands were pushed off their land.

 

The reason I pressed you earlier on specifics about what Israel is doing wrong is because I want to know that you just don't blindly believe everything they do is right. But you ignoring the settlement issue makes me think that's the case.

Sorry for the double post above. But can you all do me a favor and read this? http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/06/03/what_exactly_is_the_blockade_of_gaza