How can you say this is offensive or ask,"Where's the outrage?" in this instance but can't see how what Dan Rather said was also offensive?

 

First, you said that if a conservative like Limbaugh had said it there would be a fuss about it, I've simply provided his saying something racially offensive and noted the lack of fuss. I wouldn't have bothered otherwise.

 

Second, the stereotype is that black people have an unnatural fondness for watermelon. Rather didn't invoke that. He mentioned watermelon when talking about a black person. If he had said "I bet Obama can't wait to get his hands on some watermelon," or "Obama couldn't sell watermelon to black people," then it would certainly be offensive. Should I make sure to avoid any mention of watermelon, fried chicken, or collared greens when talking to one of my black friends? Should I not serve those items at a cookout if a black friend is attending? No, because it's not being used in an offensive manner.

And that IMO is exactly what Limbaugh takes great glee in pointing out. He uses over the top humor to point out the hypocrisy and double-standard. I genuinely do not believe he is a racist... but he most certainly enjoys exposing the racism in the ones who claim to have the moral high ground on the issue.

 

So, Limbaugh's dabbling in racism is innocent, even productive, but those who point out the offensive nature of those comments are themselves racist? Right.

So, Limbaugh's dabbling in racism is innocent, even productive, but those who point out the offensive nature of those comments are themselves racist? Right.

Demonstrating absurdity by being absurd.

 

He's nothing more than a living, breathing political cartoon on these matters. No different than SNL, Colbert, Stewart or the Onion.

 

Sometimes it's necessary to be provocative to get the point across.

Edited March 12, 201016 yr by Fastbreak

Demonstrating absurdity by being absurd.

 

He's nothing more than a living, breathing political cartoon on these matters. No different than SNL, Colbert, Stewart or the Onion.

 

Sometimes it's necessary to be provocative to get the point across.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with this on the surface. However, the Onion or Colbert are overtly satirical. They aren't taken literally. Perhaps the political points of Colbert are serious, but the manner of presentation is clearly comical. I don't believe that disambiguation exists with Limbaugh, at least not all of the time. To say that his outlandish statements, said in sincerity as part of serious political commentary, are not meant to be taken literally is being privy to intentions no one else is.

I don't necessarily disagree with this on the surface. However, the Onion or Colbert are overtly satirical. They aren't taken literally. Perhaps the political points of Colbert are serious, but the manner of presentation is clearly comical. I don't believe that disambiguation exists with Limbaugh, at least not all of the time. To say that his outlandish statements, said in sincerity as part of serious political commentary, are not meant to be taken literally is being privy to intentions no one else is.

You clearly do not listen to Limbaugh on any regular or extended basis. I deem you as being too bright to make this statement otherwise.

 

Limbaugh is no less the comedian, satirist, political commentarian than Colbert or Jon Stewart. To suggest that Colbert's political points are serious but wrapped in a comic presentation, and to not extend the same observation to Rush tells me you don't tune in enough to "get it". I refuse to believe you're that dense, blindly partisan or brainwashed otherwise...

 

 

...and yes, that is a compliment... backhanded or otherwise... :thumb:

First, you said that if a conservative like Limbaugh had said it there would be a fuss about it, I've simply provided his saying something racially offensive and noted the lack of fuss. I wouldn't have bothered otherwise.

 

Second, the stereotype is that black people have an unnatural fondness for watermelon. Rather didn't invoke that. He mentioned watermelon when talking about a black person. If he had said "I bet Obama can't wait to get his hands on some watermelon," or "Obama couldn't sell watermelon to black people," then it would certainly be offensive. Should I make sure to avoid any mention of watermelon, fried chicken, or collared greens when talking to one of my black friends? Should I not serve those items at a cookout if a black friend is attending? No, because it's not being used in an offensive manner.

 

If he didn't meant it that way then why did he offer and apology? Also why didn't he say sell a car, peaches, pears or something like that? You can mention what every you want to your friends. Also your choice of items for your cookout is up to you.

If he didn't meant it that way then why did he offer and apology? Also why didn't he say sell a car, peaches, pears or something like that? You can mention what every you want to your friends. Also your choice of items for your cookout is up to you.

 

Here is what he said:

 

All this is the backdrop for what I said on the Matthews show. I was talking about Obama and health care and I used the analogy of selling watermelons by the side of the road. It's an expression that stretches to my boyhood roots in Southeast Texas, when country highways were lined with stands manned by sellers of all races. Now of course watermelons have become a stereotype for African Americans and so my analogy entered a charged environment. I'm sorry people took offense.

 

But anyone who knows me personally or knows my professional career would know that race was not on my mind. Reporting on the injustices of race was part of the reason I became a reporter. I grew up in segregated Texas on the same side of the tracks as the African American community. At the time, enlightened people called them Negros. Many people called them much worse. When I covered the Civil Rights movement, I saw sheer hatred in ways that still haunt and shock me. For doing my small part in reporting on the South in the 1960s, I was called a traitor to my roots and other names not fit for print. I was threatened with death by people who would have welcomed me to their church on Sunday on account of my white skin if they didn't know what I was there to do. I do not take this issue lightly.

 

I think that an explanation was an appropriate response. I also think that assuming the choice of fruit for his analogy had nefarious intent is also overly presumptuous, especially since he didn't use it in the stereotypical and demeaning way.

 

At the end of the day, I have absolutely no reason to defend Dan Rather, I know precious little about him, I didn't watch him when he was the news anchor, and whatever he does now does not interest me. I simply didn't feel that his statement was offensive. Had he phrased it similar to the ways I described above, I would have, no matter his explanation. I also think that both sides of the partisan divide are quick to come up with whatever offense they can from the opposing side, even if none exists, and ignore or defend whatever offense comes from their side, even if it does exist. I think that was the case here, which is why I joined the thread and why I posted the Limbaugh comment.

No more presuptuous than the use of what Rush Limbaugh said. Also your example also states that he knew it was a stereotype for African Amercians. I'm so tired of people making remarks like this then using the tired excuse that people know them personally, they are not racist and that their life or career was to fight racism and injustice.

 

He knew what it mean but said it anyway.

No more presuptuous than the use of what Rush Limbaugh said. Also your example also states that he knew it was a stereotype for African Amercians. I'm so tired of people making remarks like this then using the tired excuse that people know them personally, they are not racist and that their life or career was to fight racism and injustice.

 

He knew what it mean but said it anyway.

:thumb: Funny how people will defend such moronic statements, isn't it?

No more presuptuous than the use of what Rush Limbaugh said. Also your example also states that he knew it was a stereotype for African Amercians. I'm so tired of people making remarks like this then using the tired excuse that people know them personally, they are not racist and that their life or career was to fight racism and injustice.

 

He knew what it mean but said it anyway.

 

As far as my knowledge goes, "couldn't sell watermelons" isn't a racial stereotype. To assume he deliberately chose watermelons instead of some other fruit because of the race of the person he was speaking about is presumptuous. I'm not aware of a way "massa" could be used innocuously in that context. I agree with your last sentence. But, you did ask why he offered an apology if he didn't have ill intent, I was just providing what he said, which was not an admission of ill intent.

As far as my knowledge goes, "couldn't sell watermelons" isn't a racial stereotype. To assume he deliberately chose watermelons instead of some other fruit because of the race of the person he was speaking about is presumptuous. I'm not aware of a way "massa" could be used innocuously in that context. I agree with your last sentence. But, you did ask why he offered an apology if he didn't have ill intent, I was just providing what he said, which was not an admission of ill intent.

 

Did you think it was offensive when Fuzzy Zoeller made the "fried chicken and watermelon" comment in regards to Tiger picking the menu at the Masters? Zoeller took a lot of flack for that comment. If Rather had added fried chicken to his pitch would it have made it offensive to you?

For the record, and on a completely side note... I absolutely love collard greens, fried chicken and watermelon. My grandmother was a world champ at preparing the chicken and greens, my granddad could pick the ripest watermelon every time. They were quite a team. I don't know if we will have food in Heaven, but I have to believe if we do, these items will be on the menu. :thumb:

For the record, and on a completely side note... I absolutely love collard greens, fried chicken and watermelon. My grandmother was a world champ at preparing the chicken and greens, my granddad could pick the ripest watermelon every time. They were quite a team. I don't know if we will have food in Heaven, but I have to believe if we do, these items will be on the menu. :thumb:

 

:thumb::thumb:

:thumb: Funny how people will defend such moronic statements, isn't it?

You are so right.

 

I wonder if he ever saw those ornaments that were in the shape of a black person holding a watermelon. Maybe even the jockey lawn ornaments. That wouldn't be racist then would it?

Did you think it was offensive when Fuzzy Zoeller made the "fried chicken and watermelon" comment in regards to Tiger picking the menu at the Masters? Zoeller took a lot of flack for that comment. If Rather had added fried chicken to his pitch would it have made it offensive to you?

 

Yes I thought that was offensive. And, yes, if Rather had added "fried chicken" then it would have been as well. My point was that in the context of his analogy "watermelons" didn't appear to be used in a racial manner, one would have to jump to the conclusion that he used watermelons instead of any other fruit solely because of the race of the president. It doesn't make sense as a racial stereotype. If he had added "fried chicken" I believe it would have removed that doubt.