Certainly stretching things here, especially as it relates to this situation, but: "This kid is recovering from a serious kidney operation and is going to try to play, but he's just not ready. It might be best if you don't play him." Yes, a stretch. A big stretch. But the point is that there IS other possibilities.

 

But even in your scenario, which no doubt is likely, while it's wrong and a serious mistake by the coach, I don't see it as a termination-worthy mistake. This was obviously an emotional, possibly heated, frustrating situation for all parties. The exact type of situation that good, honorable people can make an error of judgement. If it's one-time, isolated occurrence in an otherwise impeccable career, no way should the death card have been dealt.

 

Lets agree that it probably wasn't a plea due to the boy's health.

 

If it was jsut a "dont play him because its not right" plea AND you add in that the coach violated a recruiting rule its pretty cut and dry. I'd say the same thing about Krumps.

 

If you are that immature and vindictive you should not be a coach.

Lets agree that it probably wasn't a plea due to the boy's health.

 

If it was jsut a "dont play him because its not right" plea AND you add in that the coach violated a recruiting rule its pretty cut and dry. I'd say the same thing about Krumps.

 

If you are that immature and vindictive you should not be a coach.

 

Unfortunately, coaches are also human and prone to human mistakes. Just like you and just like me. Sometimes those mistakes are too big to excuse or forgive, sometimes they are not. Given what information we know, I place this into the former category. You obviously choose the latter and that's fine.

 

It just means you're wrong is all. :sssh:

Unfortunately, coaches are also human and prone to human mistakes. Just like you and just like me. Sometimes those mistakes are too big to excuse or forgive, sometimes they are not. Given what information we know, I place this into the former category. You obviously choose the latter and that's fine.

 

It just means you're wrong is all. :sssh:

 

Most of us here don't know all the details involved in this case. I have my idea of the scenario that unfolded and time will probably reveal more info to us all. As you say Cooperstown, I'm 47 years old and fairly mature most of the time, but that doesn't make me exempt from making poor choices upon occasion.

 

I know former and parents and players of HC and know that not everyone has loved Hammond, but know many that were very thankful he was their coach. I have also seen the guy coach a ton of ball games for many many years and NEVER observed him be immature or inappropriate. Maybe he was a big baby behind the scenes, but I can tell you he represented Henry Clay High School very professionally each and every time I ever saw him coach. Sometimes when an incident like this happens, other skeletons come out of the closet, but until then I'll hang my hat on what I know and I am shocked that they let him go. Of course, not the first time I've been shocked about something and won't be the last.

Most of us here don't know all the details involved in this case. I have my idea of the scenario that unfolded and time will probably reveal more info to us all. As you say Cooperstown, I'm 47 years old and fairly mature most of the time, but that doesn't make me exempt from making poor choices upon occasion.

 

I know former and parents and players of HC and know that not everyone has loved Hammond, but know many that were very thankful he was their coach. I have also seen the guy coach a ton of ball games for many many years and NEVER observed him be immature or inappropriate. Maybe he was a big baby behind the scenes, but I can tell you he represented Henry Clay High School very professionally each and every time I ever saw him coach. Sometimes when an incident like this happens, other skeletons come out of the closet, but until then I'll hang my hat on what I know and I am shocked that they let him go. Of course, not the first time I've been shocked about something and won't be the last.

 

Agree. Me too. And let's throw Coach Hammonds into that category also. My debate isn't that he is guiltless in this situation, only that the punishment doesn't appear to fit the crime.

Again we do not know. However, if Hammond’s testimony was the only testimony stating that the transfer was athletically motivated, then without it there was no evidence. I have also heard that if the original school “objects” to the transfer, then the KHSAA will automatically find the athlete ineligible. That doesn’t explain (and I have no clue) why the hearing officer upheld the ruling.

 

For the record, I have no blinders on and if you asked me if I think did sports play a role in the kid’s transfer I would say “definitely I believe it”. However, me believing the kid transferred due to sports and being able to say with any certainty that is the case are different.

 

The legal burden of proof is not "certainty" nor is it "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" (that's criminal law). Pursuant to KRS 13B.090 the KHSAA only has to prove by a "preponderance" of the evidence that the move was not bona fide. Generally, the coach at the sending school is never a critical witness in these matters because he/she doesn't have knowledge of why a former student's family decided to move. (Usually the player/family is savy enough not to tell former coach, "we're moving so I can play ball for another school next year.") In my opinion, the KHSAA "quick kicked" on this one as they found a way out after being threatened with legal action. Those with the resources to fight the KHSAA tend to prevail, those that don't have the resources to get lawyered up don't fair as well.

This is a political situation plain and clear. Coach Hammond did break some rules but none should have cost him his position, but an afluent parent approached a political minded superintendent and this is the result. The KHSAA had nothing to do with the firing. More than likely if they were involved it would have only resulted in some type of suspension or probationary period based upon previous incidents of other coaches across the state. This should have been a KHSAA and "school" handled situation but was not. Although the superintendent really does not have authority in the hiring and firing of this position Stu Silberman did the firing. He has the power to fire a principal and used that card to pull the trigger on this firing plain and simple.

In the vast marjority of transfer cases, the motivation behind a transfer is rarely known. I do not believe that the KHSAA would have ruled the kid eligible if they had evidence that the transfer was athletically motivated.

 

What is known is that Hammond broke KHSAA rules.

 

Also no matter if the reason behind the transfer was legit or not, I find it very troubling that an adult educator would send an email asking the Lex. Cath. coach not to play the kid. That speaks more to me about the character of the coach than the 17 years he put into the program. Sounds like a bitter person with a fragile ego.

 

Although I do not agree with wanting a kid to have to sit out I can see Coach Hammond's frustration as he has had several kids "transfer" away. Most after playing or being involved in another summer ball organization.

Two things here:

 

One, it was rumored that Hammond forbid his players from playing outside the framework of their summer ball team, which was supposed to be comprised of Henry Clay players. With the recent proliferation of many different Central Kentucky travel ball programs, this mandate somewhat limited his high school players from playing for these teams which would give them outstanding college and professional exposure. From what I understand, this has become a big point of contention at HC, especially with guys like Will Hurt who played for the Kentucky Baseball Club last year, where he began to gain notoriety already, still as a freshman.

 

Two: Lexington Catholic's head coach is a big part of the Kentucky baseball club program, and surely there were conversations between he and the Hurts regarding the prohibitive situation of summer ball and subsequent exposure. It would be a long shot to say that Hurt simply decided on a whim to transfer to Lex Cath - there were almost certainly discussions about this move conducted behind closed doors which could be construed as "recruiting."

 

It feels as though neither parties in this situation are totally free and clear of guilt. The fact of the matter, though, is that if Hammond had allowed his players to do whatever they wish for summer ball, then this whole situation could have been avoided. When it all comes down to it, baseball should be about the kids and they should be free to do whatever they want outside of the high school season so that they can gain the best chances to play after college if that's what they desire.

 

I'm sorry to hear about Coach Hammond's dismissal, as I've heard nothing but great things about him, but I'm also glad that the player in the situation will not be penalized for transferring because after all, it's about the kids, not the adults as we sometimes forget.

 

I do not agree that KBA or any other organization offers more exposure than the Henry Clay baseball program. They have always played a top notch summer schedule and there have been numerous players play both at the college level as well as professional. I do not have the numbers in front of me but I would say that Henry Clay has sent as many baseball players to college under Coach Hammond as any team in the city and maybe even the state.

I do not agree that KBA or any other organization offers more exposure than the Henry Clay baseball program. They have always played a top notch summer schedule and there have been numerous players play both at the college level as well as professional. I do not have the numbers in front of me but I would say that Henry Clay has sent as many baseball players to college under Coach Hammond as any team in the city and maybe even the state.

 

Foolish statement. Not based on reality.

Well see how foolish this is. In his tenure as head coach 52 players have gone on to play college ball and 6 have played professionally.

Well see how foolish this is. In his tenure as head coach 52 players have gone on to play college ball and 6 have played professionally.

 

No earthly clue how this compares with other schools, but it certainly seems pretty impressive. No question he has a very good reputation. Or is it "had"? :confused:

I do not agree that KBA or any other organization offers more exposure than the Henry Clay baseball program. They have always played a top notch summer schedule and there have been numerous players play both at the college level as well as professional. I do not have the numbers in front of me but I would say that Henry Clay has sent as many baseball players to college under Coach Hammond as any team in the city and maybe even the state.

 

Well see how foolish this is. In his tenure as head coach 52 players have gone on to play college ball and 6 have played professionally.

 

Roundballfanatic, thanks for your input.

 

First of all, this thread actually discusses a complex situation with Coach Hammond and touches on a number of points. It is sadly ironic that the coach is being inducted into the Hall of Fame this weekend (?) and being fired from his job this week as well. I do not know a lot about Coach Hammond, but it sounds like he has put in a lot of time over the years and accomplished a lot. Really, I believe that his firing and this discussion touches on a number of things: the transfer rule, how the KHSAA operates, the integration of travel ball and high school ball, politics, and how the high school baseball world is changing as well.

 

I do not agree with a lot of the changes in the job and profession that I have, but they have occurred and are not going back to the way things use to be. The Courier-Journal just not too long ago cost 25 cents and was relatively thick. Now the paper costs 80 cents (I do not see many, if any, paper machines any more that you could get them for 75 cents) and is very thin. The point is that the world is changing and not necessarily in ways that I like—but I am striving to accept some things because they are not going back to the way that they were.

 

I know of only one high school coach that has the reputation and clout to obtain scholarships for his players on his word alone—at least that is the way it use to happen. I am not for sure if it is still the same or not now. Maybe Coach Hammond is one of those coaches. A lot of colleges take the input from high school coaches with a grain (or chunk) of salt.

 

With that being said, college baseball coaches see a lot more players during the summer and fall in their off-season than during their and the high school’s regular season. The same has happened in basketball. The coaches would rather go to one place to see many quality players than go to one school to basically see one player. I have heard some colleges use Monday’s during their season when they don’t have a game of their own to go to a high school game. Otherwise, it might be the playoffs or a tournament on the weekend that colleges could see a player during the season. I am not saying that I agree with this—just that it is occurring.

 

“I do not agree that KBA or any other organization offers more exposure than the Henry Clay baseball program.” Some high level travel teams (not just any team), as well as organizations like Perfect Game, have a lot more ability to increase exposure for a quality player than the majority of high school coaches. Colleges do not use Perfect Game as an end all, but I think that an objective third party evaluation can be valuable for the college to have. The organizations that I am talking about have a lot more ability to network with colleges and pro scouts than the vast amount of high school coaches.

 

“They have always played a top notch summer schedule…” The summer schedule for high school teams, sadly, is very inferior to travel teams as far as competition. Too, the high level travel teams have high quality players with aspirations beyond high school. Their effort and attitude before and during the game is much different that the high school games that I have witnessed. The travel teams have problems of their own, including their role in arm injuries, but I don’t think it comes close when comparing schedules.

 

I use to be thankful that my son chose to focus on baseball because it was a “blue collar” sport; but the high the level he has played, the more costly and bigger sacrifice it has become. I get frustrated with baseball and the changes going on. Travel teams and participation in showcases, acquiring lessons, and equipment can be very expensive. I do wish Coach Hammond well. It seems like he has given quality service over many years.

Roundballfanatic, thanks for your input.

 

First of all, this thread actually discusses a complex situation with Coach Hammond and touches on a number of points. It is sadly ironic that the coach is being inducted into the Hall of Fame this weekend (?) and being fired from his job this week as well. I do not know a lot about Coach Hammond, but it sounds like he has put in a lot of time over the years and accomplished a lot. Really, I believe that his firing and this discussion touches on a number of things: the transfer rule, how the KHSAA operates, the integration of travel ball and high school ball, politics, and how the high school baseball world is changing as well.

 

I do not agree with a lot of the changes in the job and profession that I have, but they have occurred and are not going back to the way things use to be. The Courier-Journal just not too long ago cost 25 cents and was relatively thick. Now the paper costs 80 cents (I do not see many, if any, paper machines any more that you could get them for 75 cents) and is very thin. The point is that the world is changing and not necessarily in ways that I like—but I am striving to accept some things because they are not going back to the way that they were.

 

I know of only one high school coach that has the reputation and clout to obtain scholarships for his players on his word alone—at least that is the way it use to happen. I am not for sure if it is still the same or not now. Maybe Coach Hammond is one of those coaches. A lot of colleges take the input from high school coaches with a grain (or chunk) of salt.

 

With that being said, college baseball coaches see a lot more players during the summer and fall in their off-season than during their and the high school’s regular season. The same has happened in basketball. The coaches would rather go to one place to see many quality players than go to one school to basically see one player. I have heard some colleges use Monday’s during their season when they don’t have a game of their own to go to a high school game. Otherwise, it might be the playoffs or a tournament on the weekend that colleges could see a player during the season. I am not saying that I agree with this—just that it is occurring.

 

“I do not agree that KBA or any other organization offers more exposure than the Henry Clay baseball program.” Some high level travel teams (not just any team), as well as organizations like Perfect Game, have a lot more ability to increase exposure for a quality player than the majority of high school coaches. Colleges do not use Perfect Game as an end all, but I think that an objective third party evaluation can be valuable for the college to have. The organizations that I am talking about have a lot more ability to network with colleges and pro scouts than the vast amount of high school coaches.

 

“They have always played a top notch summer schedule…” The summer schedule for high school teams, sadly, is very inferior to travel teams as far as competition. Too, the high level travel teams have high quality players with aspirations beyond high school. Their effort and attitude before and during the game is much different that the high school games that I have witnessed. The travel teams have problems of their own, including their role in arm injuries, but I don’t think it comes close when comparing schedules.

 

I use to be thankful that my son chose to focus on baseball because it was a “blue collar” sport; but the high the level he has played, the more costly and bigger sacrifice it has become. I get frustrated with baseball and the changes going on. Travel teams and participation in showcases, acquiring lessons, and equipment can be very expensive. I do wish Coach Hammond well. It seems like he has given quality service over many years.

 

:thumb::thumb: Excellent analysis. Thanks from all of us still trying to navigate this newly confusing & strangely secretive world of amateur baseball!

Roundballfanatic, thanks for your input.

 

 

“They have always played a top notch summer schedule…” The summer schedule for high school teams, sadly, is very inferior to travel teams as far as competition. Too, the high level travel teams have high quality players with aspirations beyond high school. Their effort and attitude before and during the game is much different that the high school games that I have witnessed. The travel teams have problems of their own, including their role in arm injuries, but I don’t think it comes close when comparing schedules

 

If this is the case than why does KBC consistently play teams in Kentucky that are high school teams and why do they play in many tournaments that are largely made up by high school teams? KBC plays more and plays through the dead period and that maybe the biggest difference between them and high school summer teams.

Roundballfanatic, thanks for your input.

 

 

“They have always played a top notch summer schedule…” The summer schedule for high school teams, sadly, is very inferior to travel teams as far as competition. Too, the high level travel teams have high quality players with aspirations beyond high school. Their effort and attitude before and during the game is much different that the high school games that I have witnessed. The travel teams have problems of their own, including their role in arm injuries, but I don’t think it comes close when comparing schedules

 

If this is the case than why does KBC consistently play teams in Kentucky that are high school teams and why do they play in many tournaments that are largely made up by high school teams? KBC plays more and plays through the dead period and that maybe the biggest difference between them and high school summer teams.

 

Papa, I’m baffled by your response. Where do you get your information?

 

“If this is the case than why does KBC consistently play teams in Kentucky that are high school teams and why do they play in many tournaments that are largely made up by high school teams?” - I followed the 16U KBC team closely last year and I cannot remember that team playing one high school team at all. I do not remember that team even playing one high school team in any tournament. They did play in a 16U National Championship in Atlanta. Some played in a WWBA World Underclass Championship in Ft. Myers, FL.

 

“KBC plays more and plays through the dead period and that maybe the biggest difference between them and high school summer teams.” - This statement makes me wonder about your understanding of travel baseball and what the real differences are.