How did Nolan Ryan do in his 40's? How was Randy Johnson doing? Did they both take PED's? And last time I checked Clemens never tested positive for PED's.

 

How many titles does McGwire have? What about Bonds? So other then inflating their HR numbers what did PED's do for them?

 

Well if you're going the "tested positive" route I guess it's Palmeiro, A-Rod, and Manny. So you don't think Bonds, McGwire...etc. took PED's?

 

How do we not know if they took PED's? Plus, Johnson's been on the DL more the last few years than ever, which would make sense. Unlike the rest of the guys that got stronger at that age, including Clemens. I do want to believe that Nolan Ryan was simply a freak but honestly, who knows.

 

You're putting WS titles on 1 player and their HR's? You're better than that.

Give me a break. Baseball purist need to climb down off their high horse. Everyone laughs when a pitcher gets caught doctoring a ball or a hitter gets caught with corked bat. These acts are no less cheating then using PED's yet no one has a problem letting these players in. What about the huge use of amphetamines in the 70's and 80's? Do think Aaron never grabbed a hand full of greenies before taking the field?

 

You're now comparing something that merely improves concentration and keeps you focused with something that increases strength at an alarming rate, reduces recovery time, and still increases focus and concentration.

 

Doctoring a ball that may last through two batters?

A corked bat that could shatter at any time?

 

:lol::lol::lol:

They bet on their team to lose and took money in exchange for poor play on the field (no offense to Shoeless Joe). Big difference from betting on your team to win.

 

That's still gambling and goes to the heart of my post. It has already happened on the game's biggest stage. It destroys the integrity of the game. Barry Bonds didn't (allegedly) take 'roids to hit .240 w/ 15 homers. He took 'roids to be the game's greatest hitter. You gamble to benefit your pocket book, so a loss for your team turns into a win for you. If you take 'roids and become a worse hitter, it is a loss for you and your team. Gambling is much more dangerous to the game itself.

You're now comparing something that merely improves concentration and keeps you focused with something that increases strength at an alarming rate, reduces recovery time, and still increases focus and concentration.

 

Doctoring a ball that may last through two batters?

A corked bat that could shatter at any time?

 

:lol::lol::lol:

So you are ok with amphetamines?

 

So cheating is ok in some instances?

Well if you're going the "tested positive" route I guess it's Palmeiro, A-Rod, and Manny. So you don't think Bonds, McGwire...etc. took PED's?

 

How do we not know if they took PED's? Plus, Johnson's been on the DL more the last few years than ever, which would make sense. Unlike the rest of the guys that got stronger at that age, including Clemens. I do want to believe that Nolan Ryan was simply a freak but honestly, who knows.

 

You're putting WS titles on 1 player and their HR's? You're better than that.

Yes, I think Bonds and McGwire took them. With Bonds there is probably evidence that will eventually come out. With McGwire you need look no further then his appearance in front of congress.

 

I would say with at least Johnson there is a really good chance that he used at least HGH for recovery but he didn't get better and better the older he got and to be honest neither did Clemens. Clemens got a little bigger but he has had an overall strong career. Along you same line of thinking do you know for sure that Aaron never used steriods?

 

Again, other then inflating their own HR numbers what advantage did PED's gain them? It didn't make them better hitters and it didn't make them better fielders. It may have given them an advantage if they ever decided to charge the mound but other then that whoopty do. On second thought maybe Ryan was juicing, at least Ventura probably thinks so.

So you are ok with amphetamines?

 

So cheating is ok in some instances?

 

Yeah, I said that.

Yeah, I said that.

You brushed them off like they weren't a big deal.

You brushed them off like they weren't a big deal.

 

No, I compared them to something much worse. The lesser of two evil's. Hence why I never said, "Greenies are fine!"

Yes, I think Bonds and McGwire took them. With Bonds there is probably evidence that will eventually come out. With McGwire you need look no further then his appearance in front of congress.

 

I would say with at least Johnson there is a really good chance that he used at least HGH for recovery but he didn't get better and better the older he got and to be honest neither did Clemens. Clemens got a little bigger but he has had an overall strong career. Along you same line of thinking do you know for sure that Aaron never used steriods?

 

Again, other then inflating their own HR numbers what advantage did PED's gain them? It didn't make them better hitters and it didn't make them better fielders. It may have given them an advantage if they ever decided to charge the mound but other then that whoopty do. On second thought maybe Ryan was juicing, at least Ventura probably thinks so.

 

To be honest, I can't convince myself that everyone wasn't on something at one time or another, except for Sean Casey.

 

My point is, if they hit 60-70 HR's on a good team they would've gained much, much more. But, they still broke records in a sport that takes it stats very seriously.

Since the gambling warning was posted in every single locker room, I went with it in the poll since I didn't have the option of "They are equal in severity." That would have been my true choice.

You're now comparing something that merely improves concentration and keeps you focused with something that increases strength at an alarming rate, reduces recovery time, and still increases focus and concentration.

 

Doctoring a ball that may last through two batters?

A corked bat that could shatter at any time?

 

:lol::lol::lol:

Players need days off to rest. Amphetamines allow them to play when normally they would not alllowing them to inflate their numbers.

To be honest, I can't convince myself that everyone wasn't on something at one time or another, except for Sean Casey.

 

My point is, if they hit 60-70 HR's on a good team they would've gained much, much more. But, they still broke records in a sport that takes it stats very seriously.

The bolded says it all.

No, I compared them to something much worse. The lesser of two evil's. Hence why I never said, "Greenies are fine!"

And that's why I had the question mark at the end. How do you decide what is worse? They all give a competive advantage to the players so in the spirit of it, aren't they all basically the same?

 

I already know I'm one of the only ones that would say, "Greenies are fine".

 

As you can tell, PED's will continue to evolve and whether you like it or not they have been used for much longer than the "steroid era", in 20 years there is no telling what baseball players will do for a competitive advantage. Either way, it will all increase the level of playing, thus increasing my entertainment value. Therefore, I say let them have it.

It’s sad that the image of America’s pastime has sunk to a level that “baseball purists” are chided because we prefer the game be played cleanly, without cheating – be it illegal drugs, corked bats, scuffed balls, or gambling. Because some players in the past took amphetamines or cheated, this is a open license for any current/future player to cheat? PED’s are illegal because if not closely used under doctor supervision they can have very serious consequences. Lyle Alzado’s family would know. It also sends a scary message to all young baseball players – put whatever you want into your body to improve yourself, don’t worry about any consequences other than the changes it will accomplish on the field, there’s always an easier route than plain hard work, rules/laws don’t matter, and the ends always justify the means.

If you are betting for your team to lose, then gambling is by far the worst crime in baseball. However, if you are betting on your team to win, then, IMO, its next to nothing