Just out of curiosity when was the last time any of you were in a classroom in a K-12 public school to see what was actually taking place?

 

 

Not baiting, this is a serious question.

 

I would like to know this, too.

I believe that athletics keep a large number of kids in school. IMO, if you want to see drop out rates increase, take away sports.

You have a very innaccurate vision of what happens in many school systems.

 

I don't know how to do the double quote thing. But....

 

If my views are inaccurate, then there are a lot of people that have and suppport these same views. One might say that my views come from experience.

 

As far as the last time I was in a classroom.... Just last week. The key is what goes on day in and day out without observers.

 

If I am so inaccurate, why do so many kids struggle to spell, do math, and read? Are we allowing them to utilize the crutches of society? Spell Check, Calcualtors and so forth. Ask a dozen kids to calculate the tip of a meal that cost $43.76 and see what kind of responses you get then let me know what percentage could do this in their head. Just get within .05 and how quick can they do this? Do the same thing with your word inaccurate, get a dozen kids to spell this word and see what your percentages are. Both would seem basic to me. You may find that my inaccuracies are more accurate than you might think. Don't go through and ask only the top performers, ask a very random group from all classes.

 

When students are penalized or punished for not taking the KATS testing seriously or they finish 30 minutes ahead of their peers, then there is a focus on something that is not routed in basics. When a parent is told that the spelling in a portfolio is not as important as the thought process, then there is a focus that is not routed in basics.

 

I do not know how you can say I am so inaccurate when this happens everyday. I believe that what I have is a view of education that is realistic and not clouded by smoke and mirrors.

 

Here again TB&G you and I will agree to disagree. Your views and mine will never be the same, no matter the subject. I will not sugar coat things for a warm and fuzzy. In your mind you will be right and I am an idiot, and in my mind you will be wrong as well.

I don't have statistics or anything....but, NO, our kids need sports.

Before you cut out sports I would suggest that the public schools put in a pay to play fee's, if it gets to the point of education or games.....

I don't know how to do the double quote thing. But....

 

If my views are inaccurate, then there are a lot of people that have and suppport these same views. One might say that my views come from experience.

 

As far as the last time I was in a classroom.... Just last week. The key is what goes on day in and day out without observers.

 

If I am so inaccurate, why do so many kids struggle to spell, do math, and read? Are we allowing them to utilize the crutches of society? Spell Check, Calcualtors and so forth. Ask a dozen kids to calculate the tip of a meal that cost $43.76 and see what kind of responses you get then let me know what percentage could do this in their head. Just get within .05 and how quick can they do this? Do the same thing with your word inaccurate, get a dozen kids to spell this word and see what your percentages are. Both would seem basic to me. You may find that my inaccuracies are more accurate than you might think. Don't go through and ask only the top performers, ask a very random group from all classes.

 

When students are penalized or punished for not taking the KATS testing seriously or they finish 30 minutes ahead of their peers, then there is a focus on something that is not routed in basics. When a parent is told that the spelling in a portfolio is not as important as the thought process, then there is a focus that is not routed in basics.

 

I do not know how you can say I am so inaccurate when this happens everyday. I believe that what I have is a view of education that is realistic and not clouded by smoke and mirrors.

 

Here again TB&G you and I will agree to disagree. Your views and mine will never be the same, no matter the subject. I will not sugar coat things for a warm and fuzzy. In your mind you will be right and I am an idiot, and in my mind you will be wrong as well.

 

I want to reply to the bolded part first. To begin with, DO NOT put words in my mouth or attribute them to me. I have NEVER called ANYONE an idiot. I do not make judgments about people's mental capabilities based on a few posts on a message board.

 

What I have found out on this message board is that I may TOTALLY disagree in one forum and find common ground in another. Don't write us off totally.

 

As to the rest, I am going by my own personal experience as a teacher for thirteen years. I teach students the curriculum. That curriculum is what they will be tested over on the KCCT (CATS test). For example, in Chemistry, I teach the parts of the atom and how to find patterns on the periodic table. These are things that they may be asked to do on the KCCT. However, they may also be asked to do these same things on the ACT. Am I "teaching" that test, too?

 

But you know what? I don't ONLY teach Kentucky Core Content. I teach many extensions that are things students may have to do in college. I have taught many students that have scored proficient or distinguished on the KCCT. That's great. However, I have also taught students that went on to college to become engineers, scientists, doctors and nurses, many of whom get in touch with me and tell me that my expectations as a teacher and what I taught them made a difference. That being said, I doubt that I am going to change what and how I teach because the perception of some is that I am "teaching a test".

 

I don't doubt that kids in our country are suffering with basic skills. Notice that I said country and not state. Spell check is a technological tool. So are calculators. As times change and technology changes, aren't we supposed to utilize those tools?

 

As for the writing portfolios and the "thought process being more important than spelling," are you really against that? What's the use of being able to spell words if the words that you put together don't mean anything? To me, the thought process is more important. Honestly, I find extremely few students whose spelling is so horrific that they cannot get their point across in the written sense. Those students are usually those that have learning problems. Do students still make spelling mistakes? Certainly. Is it the end of the world? No.

 

Perhaps my school is unique in this. It is the only one that I have ever worked in, though I did my student teaching elsewhere. However, you have painted with a very broad brush that I simply don't think is accurate. It's a perception that some have, but perceptions don't always match reality. There may be many people that have your view (or mine) but numbers of people believing something don't determine the truth.

 

You say that you were just in a classroom last week. I would like to know in what capacity.

Very nice post^^^^. Teachers should be on par with Doctors for crying out loud.

 

Policemen too.

I like the idea of making each sports club pay for itself. As long as it can raise enough revenue to cover its expenses, it can stay. If not, shut em down. Of course, part of the revenue could come from the parents, fundraisers, etc.

 

Seems more logical than funding an expensive sport that nets a loss. That money is probably better spent elsewhere.

I like the idea of making each sports club pay for itself. As long as it can raise enough revenue to cover its expenses, it can stay. If not, shut em down. Of course, part of the revenue could come from the parents, fundraisers, etc.

 

Seems more logical than funding an expensive sport that nets a loss. That money is probably better spent elsewhere.

 

This is all fine and dandy until the Title 9 folks come to town.

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So no student athlete has an oportunity to live out their career as a professional or earn a college schalorship? My only response is look around the Louisville area the last 10 years and tell me if any atletes had those opportunities.

 

So how much thinking does it take to play Country Music on a guitar, bang out some heavy metal tunes on the Drums. Am I to believe that no Musician that picks up an instrument has dreams of making a successful career with the Philharmonic or a Rock n Roll band? No member of Art class has ever dreamed of having their work on display and for sale in a gallery somewhere? I never said that Music and Art and those endeavors were not valuable. I only make the point that we are all to quick to shut down athletics when that is the only reason that some kids even try in school. I am not a holier than thou parent that believes that I have done everything right. My kids can be worthless pains. They all play sports and they all can play an instrument. Two of them either dream of being professional athletes or musicians.

 

But hey, times are tough, lets take away athletics. We do everything we can to make their lives harder, lets just rip their hearts out.

 

Wow I just finished listen to Kid Rock - he picked up some upper intellectual stuff in his music classes inhigh school.:sssh:

 

Pains - OK,

Worthless - :cry: I hope not.

This is all fine and dandy until the Title 9 folks come to town.

 

If the school does not pay for any sport how could the Title 9 folks be angry.

TB&G - No intent to put words in your mouth or attribute them to you. Again I am a realist and if someone thinks that my views are idiotic or moronic, does not bother me or upset me. I have said in many threads about different subject, that a person can call me names, make fun of me, think of me as anything they want. That means nothing to me. I am not a politically correct, whiney worrisome person that cries fould everytime someone disagrees with me or does something that I do not like.

 

If you however were offended, then I apologize.

 

I am in sales and a sub. I sub in a variety of schools around. So I am in class rooms and in schools. I have a dad that is a teacher, a brother that is a teacher, a sister that is a teacher and a brother in law that is a teacher. I know what goes on in and around schools.

 

You as if kids should not rely on technological tools that have developed over the years. I think that they should use them in conjunction with understanding them. The key word in your question though is rely, no they should not rely on them.

 

I absolutley without a doubt think that conveying thoughts into words and structured sentences is very important. However, if they cannot spell and they do not know how to use punctuation, then no, the feel good thought processes are not working. My oldest son went out recently to look for a job. Do you know that 90% of the places he applied to, gave him a piece of paper and a pen? How are those technological advances helping him? Great thought processes, but misspelled so much on those applications that I would not hire him. But he feels good becasue everyone thinks he is doing an excellent job putting his thoughts into his portfolio. Never mind how the words are spelled.

 

Someone else hoped my kids wern't worthless. Just like all teenagers, they certainly can be. I have raised them to not whine and cry when someone calls them a name or disagrees with them. Be young men and women, sticks and stones...... Somewhere we forgot that.

 

TB&G, I admire and appreciate your 13 + years in the teaching profession. I appreciate and admire teachers. As I said to many family members running around doing it to not. There are an awful lot of disconnects between kids education and the basics.

 

Keep on Keeping on!

If the school does not pay for any sport how could the Title 9 folks be angry.

 

Title 9 doesn't care who pays for it, only that equal opportunity is provided no matter what.

If a booster wants to buy the boys a TV for the locker room, the girls must also have a TV of at least equal value - no matter who or how it is provided.