Still waiting for scriptural call to baptize small children. I'm not talking about some religious organization's historical practice. I need to see it in the Bible. We are not to follow after the traditions of men; rather, what thus soever saeth the word of God.

 

John the Baptist rejected the Pharisees and Saducees and called them a generation of vipers and told them to go and bring forth fruits meet for repentance. Meaning- he would not baptize them until they repented. Of what does a newborn need to repent, when Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is likened unto them?

We are born with original sin. Baptism cleanses us of that sin.

 

"Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 19:14) So we baptize them early, because we wouldn't want to slow them down.

 

Anyways, you seem to be quite insulted by infant baptism. Are you implying that there is some sinfulness in infant baptism?

Trampler, a person who isn't subjected by the Gospel isn't going to burn. We cannot question God, thats why he is God. The pattern through out the Gospel gives humans the pathway to heaven. If he has the chance to hear/read and rejects this pattern he will be judged.

 

People who are mentally challenged/too young/Far off land/haven't heard the Gospel/ will be judged differently. Thats why he is God.

 

And you are entitled.

Trampler, a person who isn't subjected by the Gospel isn't going to burn. We cannot question God, thats why he is God. The pattern through out the Gospel gives humans the pathway to heaven. If he has the chance to hear/read and rejects this pattern he will be judged.

 

People who are mentally challenged/too young/Far off land/haven't heard the Gospel/ will be judged differently. Thats why he is God.

 

And you are entitled.

 

Please provide me ANY scriptural support for the bolded. I hear a lot of people make this statement, but what I find is that it typically is simply their own statement because they think it would be too "unfair" for the reverse to happen.

I hope this doesn't come off as real dumb...so why the need for the confirmation?

 

 

It's not real dumb. At the point where a child prepares to choose confirmation, this is the point where the "choice" similiar to those faiths who believe in being "saved" occurs. This is the time when, although baptized, the child afferims their Catholic faith. The fact that they are baptized, to Catholics, ensures their souls' entry to heaven, provided all other conditions are met throughout their life time. If the child chooses not to be confirmed, or leaves the Catholic Church, their baptism is still baptism. The Confirmation is their own CHOICE remain and live as Catholic.

 

A description from Catholic.com follows:

 

 

The sacrament of confirmation is found in Bible passages such as Acts 8:14–17, 9:17, 19:6, and Hebrews 6:2, which speak of a laying on of hands for the purpose of bestowing the Holy Spirit.

 

Hebrews 6:2 is especially important because it is not a narrative account of how confirmation was given and, thus, cannot be dismissed by those who reject the sacrament as something unique to the apostolic age. In fact, the passage refers to confirmation as one of Christianity’s basic teachings, which is to be expected since confirmation, like baptism, is a sacrament of initiation into the Christian life.

 

We read: "Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment" (Heb. 6:1–2).

 

Notice how in this passage we are walked through the successive stages of the Christian journey—repentance, faith, baptism, confirmation, resurrection, and judgment. This passage encapsulates the Christian’s journey toward heaven and gives what theologians call the order of salvation or the ordo salutis. It well qualifies as "the elementary teachings" of the Christian faith.

 

The laying on of hands mentioned in the passage must be confirmation: The other kinds of the imposition of hands (for ordination and for healing) are not done to each and every Christian and scarcely qualify as part of the order of salvation.

 

As the following passages show, the Church Fathers and early Christian writers also recognized confirmation as a sacrament distinct from baptism, even though it was usually given simultaneously with baptism. Their words speak powerfully about this anointing and imposition of hands for reception of the Holy Spirit and the role it has in Christian initiation.

Baptism doesn't cleanse us from Sin. The Blood of Jesus does. The Bible says baptism is not for the putting away of the filthiness of the flesh, but for the answering of a good consciense to God. Jesus didn't say that heaven was like children, because children needed to be baptized. He said it, because they were already perfect. Larry, the only ones that will burn are those who reject Salvation. It will be their choice not God's will. "It is not my will that any should perish, but that all will come unto repentance and live." Not baptism-repentance. I see infant baptism as creating a false sense of spiritual security in a person who had no ability to choose to participate in the act. Baptism is reserved for those who have experienced salvation.

 

Where is confirmation discussed, taught, recommended, etc in the Bible?

Baptism doesn't cleanse us from Sin. The Blood of Jesus does. The Bible says baptism is not for the putting away of the filthiness of the flesh, but for the answering of a good consciense to God. Jesus didn't say that heaven was like children, because children needed to be baptized. He said it, because they were already perfect. Larry, the only ones that will burn are those who reject Salvation. It will be their choice not God's will. "It is not my will that any should perish, but that all will come unto repentance and live." Not baptism-repentance. I see infant baptism as creating a false sense of spiritual security in a person who had no ability to choose to participate in the act. Baptism is reserved for those who have experienced salvation.

 

Where is confirmation discussed, taught, recommended, etc in the Bible?

 

There are scriptural references in my post above.

I don't mean to be offensive, but I just can't get confirmation out of anything in that post.

I don't mean to be offensive, but I just can't get confirmation out of anything in that post.

 

 

Did you read the scriptural references?

Trampler, for the sake of clarity, what purpose do you see in baptism?

Yes, but I couldn't make the conection.

 

The way I understand scripture, a person is innocent if truly ignorant, "To him who knoweth to do good, and do it not; to him it is sin". Therefore, until a person reaches a maturity level which allows for understanding of sin and why Jesus had to die, that person may be doing things that are wrong, but "their sins are not imputed unto them". Once a person is wooed by the spirit, "With loving kindness have I drawn thee"; they will then reject the Spirit of the Lord or fall into a saddened state of guilt on account of their sin, repentance. This is done through the preaching and hearing of God's word; "It pleases God through the foolishness of preaching to save them which believe". Yet, "It's not the hearer of the word that is justified but the doer"; therefore the individual must invite Jesus into their life, "Behold I stand at the door and knock". Once that happens that person is delivered from sin, salvation. "When you believe you are then sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise". Then, and only then, is that person a worthy candiate for baptism.

Y'all forgive me, but after years of these discussions I'm reminded of the following words that honestly sum up this whole debate:

 

 

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.”---Stuart Chase

CC, the Bible says baptism is "for the answering of a good conscience towards God." For me it is symbolic that we have had a spiritual part with Christ's death, burial, and ressurection.

It's not real dumb. At the point where a child prepares to choose confirmation, this is the point where the "choice" similiar to those faiths who believe in being "saved" occurs. This is the time when, although baptized, the child afferims their Catholic faith. The fact that they are baptized, to Catholics, ensures their souls' entry to heaven, provided all other conditions are met throughout their life time. If the child chooses not to be confirmed, or leaves the Catholic Church, their baptism is still baptism. The Confirmation is their own CHOICE remain and live as Catholic.

 

A description from Catholic.com follows:

Thank you. That clears some things up. My youngest sisters and brother are raised Catholic and I've always wondered about these things as I've attended baptisms, first communions, and such.

From Catholic.com, here are 3 scriptural references to child baptism:

 

But, one might ask, does the Bible ever say that infants or young children can be baptized? The indications are clear. In the New Testament we read that Lydia was converted by Paul’s preaching and that "She was baptized, with her household" (Acts 16:15). The Philippian jailer whom Paul and Silas had converted to the faith was baptized that night along with his household. We are told that "the same hour of the night . . . he was baptized, with all his family" (Acts 16:33). And in his greetings to the Corinthians, Paul recalled that, "I did baptize also the household of Stephanas" (1 Cor. 1:16).

 

In all these cases, whole households or families were baptized. This means more than just the spouse; the children too were included. If the text of Acts referred simply to the Philippian jailer and his wife, then we would read that "he and his wife were baptized," but we do not. Thus his children must have been baptized as well. The same applies to the other cases of household baptism in Scripture.

But we are not given any indication as to the age of these people...