Then the government should do nothing about homosexuality and abortion. they are religious issues.

 

Where do you get that.

Abortion is the murder of unborn babies. That is NOT just a religious issue.

And government is doing NOTHING about homosexualty. Government is defining what a legal marriage is.

Where do you get that.

Abortion is the murder of unborn babies. That is NOT just a religious issue.

And government is doing NOTHING about homosexualty. Government is defining what a legal marriage is.

 

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

So, by YOUR OWN ADMISSION, Jesus WANTED NO PART of collecting more taxes and redistributing the wealth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

He said give Caesar the taxes that are Caesar's.

 

He DID NOT SAY, hey, let's take more of Caesar's and redistribute it out to the poor.

 

Thanks for pointing that out. Good argument against your own point.:thumb:

 

HE DID SAY, for the church to take care of the poor. Paul actually gave an order. 1)help yourself; 2)family helps you; 3)church helps you. And that is where Paul stopped.

 

If Jesus said give Caesar the taxes that are Caesar's, and Obama wins and raises taxes for earners making $250K +, then they, by decree of Jesus would be morally obligated to pay more...and be happy about it.

If Jesus said give Caesar the taxes that are Caesar's, and Obama wins and raises taxes for earners making $250K +, then they, by decree of Jesus would be morally obligated to pay more...and be happy about it.

 

Yes, obligated to pay more.

Don't see anything about being happy about it there.

Then the government should do nothing about homosexuality and abortion. they are religious issues.

Abortion is separate because it is murder.

 

I agree that the government should have nothing to do with homosexuality or marriage. Marriage is an institution that has nothing to do with gov't. I do not want the government to encourage or discourage homosexuality.

 

If you have noticed, it is legal to be a homosexual.

Could you see Jesus flying a plane and dropping a bomb that killed people?

 

If not, then how can you support a candidate who supports war?

 

Do you deny that God said 'love your enemy, bless those who curse you. . . turn the other cheek'?

 

How do any of these line up with the concept of war?

 

Should a Christian go to war? By-Matt Slick

 

 

This question has caused a lot of division in the body of Christ. Should a Christian go to war where he might kill other people when the Bible says to "turn the other cheek" (Luke 6:28)? Is it right to do war against others or does the Bible forbid it?

War is a state of declared, open, and armed conflict between two or more nations. It is sometimes undertaken in self defense as when the U.S. entered WWII as a result of Japan attacking Pearl Harbor. Other times, however, nations unjustly go to war to take spoils from other countries. Murder, on the other hand, is an unlawful taking of life and is always wrong. When nations go to war, it is declared lawful by the countries going to war -- sometimes for moral reasons and other times for immoral reasons. Therefore, and immoral war could be considered a form of murder where a moral war could be in self defense. But not all war is wrong.

It is difficult to determine when war would be a righteous endeavor given that leaders of nations are not Christian and could easily have ungodly reasons for going to war. Nevertheless, war is an unfortunate reality in this world and it causes great destruction, misery, and loss of life. It should be avoided if possible and undertaken only as a last resort.

The Bible teaches that we have the right to self defense Exodus 22:2: "If the thief is caught while breaking in, and is struck so that he dies, there will be no blood guiltiness on his account." The Bible also tells us to protect the innocent, Deut. 19:10, "So innocent blood will not be shed in the midst of your land which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance, and blood guiltiness be on you." Also, see "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin," (Deut. 24:16). If we were to apply these principles to war, I would conclude that war is justifiable when it is in self defense and/or when it is to protect the innocent. Therefore, a Christian could rightfully engage in war given those conditions.

 

More on war

 

We can see that war is not a sin in itself since in the Old Testament God sends people into war:

 

"Then the Lord spoke to Moses in the plains of Moab by the Jordan opposite Jericho, saying, 51"Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘When you cross over the Jordan into the land of Canaan, 52then you shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their figured stones, and destroy all their molten images and demolish all their high places; 53and you shall take possession of the land and live in it, for I have given the land to you to possess it," (Num. 33:50-53).

In fact, God uses war as a means of disciplining nations.

 

“I sent a plague among you after the manner of Egypt; I slew your young men by the sword along with your captured horses, And I made the stench of your camp rise up in your nostrils; Yet you have not returned to Me,” declares the Lord," (Amos 4:10).

 

Also, the Lord is called a warrior.

 

“The Lord is a warrior; The Lord is His name. 4“Pharaoh’s chariots and his army He has cast into the sea; And the choicest of his officers are drowned in the Red Sea," (Exodus 15:3-4).

 

From this we can easily conclude that going to war is not a sin. That is, if it complies with the biblical instructions of self-defense and protection of the innocent.

Furthermore, Christians are instructed to be in subjection to the governing authorities whose establishment is from God. This establishment has the right to declare war and to punish its citizenry, even by capital punishment.

 

"Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2Therefore he who resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same; 4for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil," (Rom. 13:1-4).

"Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, 14or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right," (1 Peter 2:13).

Finally, notice that when some soldiers approached John the Baptist and inquired about repentance. John did not tell them to stop being soldiers, but to do their jobs properly, honestly.

 

"And some soldiers were questioning him, saying, "And what about us, what shall we do?" And he said to them, "Do not take money from anyone by force, or accuse anyone falsely, and be content with your wages," (Luke 3:14).

From all of this, we can see that going to war is not wrong it itself and that a Christian can go to war under the right circumstances.

If Jesus said give Caesar the taxes that are Caesar's, and Obama wins and raises taxes for earners making $250K +, then they, by decree of Jesus would be morally obligated to pay more...and be happy about it.

All the more reason for us to select our "Caesars" carefully.

I've read this entire thread, and I have to say that it is hard for me to take any positions on Biblical matters seriously from anyone openly supporting the one candidate in this election that supports abortion and infanticide.

You can paint with a broad brush or split hairs all you want. If you're willing to give BO an pass on these two issues, all your railing about the evils of greed, war, wealth, etc. ring very hollow to me.

 

It is a waste of time to even debate such matters.

 

This statement reminded me of a former preacher at my church that said we weren't christian if we voted for Clinton. In my eyes, neither candidate is the second coming of the Prophet Jeremiah. Personally, I don't agree with Obama's take on abortion or homosexual marriages and the like, but I'm not going to vote John McCain, who I think is full of crap, like most politicians, because he says he's against it. I'm voting for Obama because I think he'll try to do more for the poor and middle class and I know for a fact McCain won't. The GOP can continue to use things like abortion and homosexuality to try and win votes, but it's not it shan't work on me.

This statement reminded me of a former preacher at my church that said we weren't christian if we voted for Clinton. In my eyes, neither candidate is the second coming of the Prophet Jeremiah. Personally, I don't agree with Obama's take on abortion or homosexual marriages and the like, but I'm not going to vote John McCain, who I think is full of crap, like most politicians, because he says he's against it. I'm voting for Obama because I think he'll try to do more for the poor and middle class and I know for a fact McCain won't. The GOP can continue to use things like abortion and homosexuality to try and win votes, but it's not it shan't work on me.

You can search over 8,000 posts I've made on this site... you could talk with me in person and you would find nowhere that I have ever equated one's "Christianity" with their vote in this election.

 

I do agree with you on the point that all politicians are full of crap to one degree or another.

 

I simply find it amazing that anyone who claims to be a Christian could place one "sin" above another. Sin is sin. Without Christ, greed will keep one out of Heaven just as much as murder or simlpy telling little "white" lies. We all sin, and all sin is offensive to God.

 

In terms of this thread, the idea that people are "greedy" because they do not like the idea of paying more taxes to fund a growing (but inefficient) government, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME ignoring the greed of the very politicians they support as they attempt to acquire more power and increasing the number of people who feel helpless without a government that will provide for them is absurd.

 

The idea that anyone can turn their head and pull the lever for a candidate that openly endorses the murder of fetuses and infants, while wagging their finger at those of us supporting the other candidate because we're supporting greed and war is hysterical... sad but hysterical.

 

There are no clean hands in this world, much less this election. Claiming moral superiority one way or the other is futile... but, we do have to vote in the manner that most closely reflects our convictions. For me, the ongoing murder of a million children a year outweighs my anger or jealousy over some rich dude increasing his wealth. My concern to let our military professionals determine the best time to get out of Iraq outweighs my desire to get out today, and imposing some arbitrary time table on them that clearly telegraphs our strategies to our enemies.

 

Blah, blah, blah...

You can search over 8,000 posts I've made on this site... you could talk with me in person and you would find nowhere that I have ever equated one's "Christianity" with their vote in this election.

 

I do agree with you on the point that all politicians are full of crap to one degree or another.

 

I simply find it amazing that anyone who claims to be a Christian could place one "sin" above another. Sin is sin. Without Christ, greed will keep one out of Heaven just as much as murder or simlpy telling little "white" lies. We all sin, and all sin is offensive to God.

 

In terms of this thread, the idea that people are "greedy" because they do not like the idea of paying more taxes to fund a growing (but inefficient) government, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME ignoring the greed of the very politicians they support as they attempt to acquire more power and increasing the number of people who feel helpless without a government that will provide for them is absurd.

 

The idea that anyone can turn their head and pull the lever for a candidate that openly endorses the murder of fetuses and infants, while wagging their finger at those of us supporting the other candidate because we're supporting greed and war is hysterical... sad but hysterical.

 

There are no clean hands in this world, much less this election. Claiming moral superiority one way or the other is futile... but, we do have to vote in the manner that most closely reflects our convictions. For me, the ongoing murder of a million children a year outweighs my anger or jealousy over some rich dude increasing his wealth. My concern to let our military professionals determine the best time to get out of Iraq outweighs my desire to get out today, and imposing some arbitrary time table on them that clearly telegraphs our strategies to our enemies.

 

Blah, blah, blah...

 

No, I wasn't insinuating that all, as a matter of factly, I agree with a lot of what you say about both sides being full of it. We just differ on why we're voting for whom we are voting for, but that's why we live in America, and that's why they're elections......until Obama brings forth communism and does away with all that. Just kidding.

No, I wasn't insinuating that all, as a matter of factly, I agree with a lot of what you say about both sides being full of it. We just differ on why we're voting for whom we are voting for, but that's why we live in America, and that's why they're elections......until Obama brings forth communism and does away with all that. Just kidding.

 

Maybe he'll put us in a BGP gulag and we can talk about this face-to-face...while we dig ditches and starve to death while drinking a half gallon of vodka every day.

Maybe he'll put us in a BGP gulag and we can talk about this face-to-face...while we dig ditches and starve to death while drinking a half gallon of vodka every day.

 

It'll probably be more like a half pint of vodka for awhile, until we can dig more ditches, and just as Old Boxer's attitude was in Animal Farm, so will be mine....I'll just work harder.

I'll just work harder.

...nevermind... :lol:

It'll probably be more like a half pint of vodka for awhile, until we can dig more ditches, and just as Old Boxer's attitude was in Animal Farm, so will be mine....I'll just work harder.

 

For more vodka, of course? :lol:

For more vodka, of course? :lol:

 

Yeah, they can keep their cheap bologne.