Okay lets say the score is 28-27 team A is winning, and has the ball with 38 seconds left. Team B is told by the refs they cannot touch team A's players because they are kneeling the ball. What should be done?

 

This has happened twice to Conner this season and I thought you were allowed to try and make the QB fumble and what not???:fight:

This is going to be a tough one to explain because many of you are not going to agree with it. Frankly, I'm not sure I agree with the practice in a one-score game, but I understand where it comes from.

 

The "Miracle in the Meadowlands", a play in which the New York Giants needed only to snap and down the ball one last time to seal a victory but instead fumbled and watched in disbelief as Herman Edwards returned it for a touchdown, has happened exactly once in the history of football. That play spawned the creation of the victory formation, making the likelihood of another "miracle" so remote it's almost impossible.

 

When a team sets in the victory formation, what happens? The defense tries to cream the snapper to cause a fumble. Personal fouls happen, fights start, players get ejected--it gets ugly. This doesn't happen so much in college or the NFL, but it's a problem in high school football. Or at least it has been in the past.

 

Because some officials have seen that happen so many times before, they will tell the defense to lay off.

 

You might be thinking, instead of trying to blow up the center, what if the noseguard could swat the ball from the snapper before it gets to the quarterback? Technically, that's encroachment by the defense.

 

So, with the victory formation, there's not much the defense can really do legally to try to create a fumble. I guess another 'miracle' could still happen, but a whole lot more bad things are much more likely. That's why some high school officials do this.

I agree offside. Nothing good can come of this for the defense, so it is better to warn the defense that team A is going to kneel the ball down to run the clock out, don't do anything rough or stupid, that could result in a foul or possible disqualification of a player from the next game, which could be a playoff game.

I agree offside. Nothing good can come of this for the defense, so it is better to warn the defense that team A is going to kneel the ball down to run the clock out, don't do anything rough or stupid, that could result in a foul or possible disqualification of a player from the next game, which could be a playoff game.

 

I do like this rule. I just noticed the Ref's calling this out to the Defense (he actually asked the winning team coach first) and told them to stay off. What happens when the offense fakes and goes for a score. What would the ref do in this situation after he has told the D' to stay back?

I do like this rule. I just noticed the Ref's calling this out to the Defense (he actually asked the winning team coach first) and told them to stay off. What happens when the offense fakes and goes for a score. What would the ref do in this situation after he has told the D' to stay back?

 

Why would the offense do that with the lead and the game in hand?

Why would the offense do that with the lead and the game in hand?

 

They are coached by Jim Matney and need to make a "statement" to the pollsters in the golden triangle

 

Seriously though, I guess his question has merit at the end of a half. Team A is pinned inside their ten after a punt and they fake the logical kneel down to take a shot downfield. I can not imagine teams doing this at the end of the game unless it is a tie score prior to overtime in a similar instance where it would be more logical to kneel down that take a shot at a 90 yard Hail Mary and an INT against a Prevent defense that could be returned for a TD.

I know it is unfortunate for your team (for it to happen twice), but I like the way the rule is enforced.

I do like this rule. I just noticed the Ref's calling this out to the Defense (he actually asked the winning team coach first) and told them to stay off. What happens when the offense fakes and goes for a score. What would the ref do in this situation after he has told the D' to stay back?

 

Holding on the left Guard.:thumb:

 

Seriously though, I guess his question has merit at the end of a half. Team A is pinned inside their ten after a punt and they fake the logical kneel down to take a shot downfield.

 

I worked a game a few years back where this very thing happened. The coach for the offensive team told me he was going to take a knee, and screamed it over and over to his quarterback on the field. Everybody in the stadium heard him. So, we told the defense to lay off.

 

Of course, the quarterback faked taking the knee, and before we could get our whistles to our stunned lips, he threw a pass to a wide open receiver who would have scored an 80+ yard touchdown. We eventually blew the play dead because we'd told the defense to lay off.

 

Ironically, the coach for the defensive team was the one who complained--loudly I might add. He thought that his defense might have tackled the QB for a loss and possibly forced a last second punt if we hadn't blown it dead. I think it was overly optimistic on his part, especially since we called back a would-be touchdown for the other team, but he made a good point.

 

I still think calling off the defense during a kneel-down is prudent in most game-ending situations. But not at the end of the first half.

Holding on the left Guard.:thumb:

 

I like your thinking, coach.

Holding on the left Guard.:thumb:

 

:thumb: Great point and an expected outcome

Why would the offense do that with the lead and the game in hand?

 

You are absolutley right, but to think that it wouldn't happen??? There was another thread on here about a Frosh game with the gamewell in hand (4 TD's I believe), and at the end of the game the offense did a halfback pass for a TD. Not the same thing, but I would dare say, even with the game in hand, don't discount the possible.....

In a JV game about 10 years back, we were knealing down to run out the clock. We did this on first down, on 2nd down our tight end (unbenounced to me) talked our QB into running a tight end dump .(which went for about 25 yards). I was as mad as I could be at our two players.I had them apologize to the other team after the game. I think the QB lost 10 pounds the next week and the tight end is still running. It was a classless act on our part and gave our program a black eye.

In a JV game about 10 years back, we were knealing down to run out the clock. We did this on first down, on 2nd down our tight end (unbenounced to me) talked our QB into running a tight end dump .(which went for about 25 yards). I was as mad as I could be at our two players.I had them apologize to the other team after the game. I think the QB lost 10 pounds the next week and the tight end is still running. It was a classless act on our part and gave our program a black eye.

 

Thanks for the post coach. This proves that it could happen. Did you receive any feedback from the Ref and would you have been OK with a penalty whistle, bogus or not?

I wish the ref would have called it back. I would have loved a bogus flag on that play.