Like many of you, I am watching with keen interest the incredulity of the media today that the bailout package was voted down, the precipitous drop of the market, the political fallout, the guessing game over what to do.

 

I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person. I have some financial acumen, read extensively about finance issues (both online and print and written mediums), and do have grave concern over the effects of Wall Street upon Main Street and vice versa. That said, I do not really believe that anyone, including the most intrepid of financial leaders, really fully grasps all of the complexities of the market that we have here before us.

 

Several days ago, I composed a letter, on law firm letterhead, urging Ron Lewis, my Congressman, and Senators Bunning and McConnell, my Senators, to vigorously oppose any "bailout" legislation that included any but the most free market of plans, including financial support of foreign purchased triple-A paper, re-payment plans under standard commercial loan length, loan forgiveness, or any other plan that did not involve standard commercial lending practices. I told all 3 of them that if they voted in favor of such a plan, I would make it my political mission, regardless of party, to see to their defeat, and would make every effort to influence as many as possible to join me in doing the same.

 

You see, after looking at this from every angle, after making as much of an educated effort as possible, after setting aside blame (such as the Bill Clinton's fault thread), partisanship (could care less how Obama or McCain act on this issue), and fear-mongering (golden parachutes and 776 point drops, et. al.), the state of the economy comes down, in almost every respect, to one thing: gluttony.

 

Gluttony explains why consumer spending has reached 2/3 of the Gross National Product. Gluttony explains the consistent and unabated fraudulent valuation of corporations (and the concominant need for fraudulent accounting and securities reporting). Gluttony from the SEC explains the utter failure to patrol 10b-5 filings vigorously. Gluttony explains the inflated projections of Triple-A paper sold to the Bank of Shanghai and other foreign banks. Gluttony explains the all-time high of the average consumer credit card balance, as well as the abstraction of standards for lending by local banks.

 

Gluttony also explains why this proposed bill, if you read it, was absolutely littered with earmarks and special legislation and graft of the worst sort. Don't take my word for it. Read it yourself.

 

The only way to cure systemic gluttony is by deprivation. That is why I rejoiced in today's vote, but I believe that the positive aspects of today's vote run much deeper:

 

1. Apparently, by an approximated 80-1 margin, constituents contacted their legislators OPPOSED to the bailout legislation, particularly in those areas where legislators, both REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT, were up for re-election. What this means is that for the first time in eons, legislators actually listened to their constituency;

 

2. This was a bi-partisan defeat of legislation;

 

3. The administrative heads of state, Treasury, etc., are being exposed for the frauds that they are;

 

4. Nancy Pelosi, with her ridiculous behavior today, may have taken the latest and biggest step on her way out as Speaker. Lest you believe this to be partisan, even though he supported the legislation I believe Steny Hoyer's performance today to have been admirable as Majority Leader and I would support his election as Speaker;

 

5. New figures released today show that consumer spending in August dropped but that median household income actually rose slightly. This means that Americans are making a little bit more but they are spending less; they are actually THINKING before they spend, and, Heaven forbid, saving some money;

 

6. A close examination of corrected securities indicates that those stocks most affected have been stocks with P/E ratios already higher than 25. What that means is that there have been huge drops is stocks being valued at 25 times earnings or more, which means that this correction is hammering the gross overtrading of ridiculously overvalued stocks;

 

7. A secondary analysis will show that NYSE stocks with little or no long-term debt have suffered very little market correction;

 

8. #6 and #7 should indicate, therefore, that we are being FORCED back into securities analysis based upon debt, and not inflated valuation. For those of you whom are younger, go check out a copy of Peter Lynch's 1991 classic One Up On Wall Street;

 

9. Gas prices are falling precipitously;

 

10. The run to secure private savings vehicles, such as credit union (NCUA-backed) CD's has been tremendous;

 

In all, this is 1987 re-visited. There will be tremendous opportunity for you as an investor to rise like a phoenix from the ashes in this market.

 

I urge all of you to CONTACT YOUR LEGISLATOR AGAIN. Tell them to shootdown the inevitable "Bailout II." Keep requiring them to shoot it down until all remnants of earmarks and anything but free market loans have been exorcized from the legislation. The only way to cure gluttony is with the sword and deprivation. We will all suffer enormously, but it is the only way to emerge cleanly for our children and grandchildren.

 

I invite comment.

Seems pretty wise, ol' sage. :thumb:

Seems pretty wise, ol' sage. :thumb:

 

Thank you, you at least have the "'ol" part correct.

 

I am being an advocate, here. I do not profess to have THE answer, I can only interpret what numbers and actions seem to be suggesting. I do NOT want us as a country to give in to debenture of this magnitude without examination of the cause.

 

You are a young 'un, comparitively, what are your thoughts?

Like many of you, I am watching with keen interest the incredulity of the media today that the bailout package was voted down, the precipitous drop of the market, the political fallout, the guessing game over what to do.

 

I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person. I have some financial acumen, read extensively about finance issues (both online and print and written mediums), and do have grave concern over the effects of Wall Street upon Main Street and vice versa. That said, I do not really believe that anyone, including the most intrepid of financial leaders, really fully grasps all of the complexities of the market that we have here before us.

 

Several days ago, I composed a letter, on law firm letterhead, urging Ron Lewis, my Congressman, and Senators Bunning and McConnell, my Senators, to vigorously oppose any "bailout" legislation that included any but the most free market of plans, including financial support of foreign purchased triple-A paper, re-payment plans under standard commercial loan length, loan forgiveness, or any other plan that did not involve standard commercial lending practices. I told all 3 of them that if they voted in favor of such a plan, I would make it my political mission, regardless of party, to see to their defeat, and would make every effort to influence as many as possible to join me in doing the same.

 

You see, after looking at this from every angle, after making as much of an educated effort as possible, after setting aside blame (such as the Bill Clinton's fault thread), partisanship (could care less how Obama or McCain act on this issue), and fear-mongering (golden parachutes and 776 point drops, et. al.), the state of the economy comes down, in almost every respect, to one thing: gluttony.

 

Gluttony explains why consumer spending has reached 2/3 of the Gross National Product. Gluttony explains the consistent and unabated fraudulent valuation of corporations (and the concominant need for fraudulent accounting and securities reporting). Gluttony from the SEC explains the utter failure to patrol 10b-5 filings vigorously. Gluttony explains the inflated projections of Triple-A paper sold to the Bank of Shanghai and other foreign banks. Gluttony explains the all-time high of the average consumer credit card balance, as well as the abstraction of standards for lending by local banks.

 

Gluttony also explains why this proposed bill, if you read it, was absolutely littered with earmarks and special legislation and graft of the worst sort. Don't take my word for it. Read it yourself.

 

The only way to cure systemic gluttony is by deprivation. That is why I rejoiced in today's vote, but I believe that the positive aspects of today's vote run much deeper:

 

1. Apparently, by an approximated 80-1 margin, constituents contacted their legislators OPPOSED to the bailout legislation, particularly in those areas where legislators, both REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT, were up for re-election. What this means is that for the first time in eons, legislators actually listened to their constituency;

 

2. This was a bi-partisan defeat of legislation;

 

3. The administrative heads of state, Treasury, etc., are being exposed for the frauds that they are;

 

4. Nancy Pelosi, with her ridiculous behavior today, may have taken the latest and biggest step on her way out as Speaker. Lest you believe this to be partisan, even though he supported the legislation I believe Steny Hoyer's performance today to have been admirable as Majority Leader and I would support his election as Speaker;

 

5. New figures released today show that consumer spending in August dropped but that median household income actually rose slightly. This means that Americans are making a little bit more but they are spending less; they are actually THINKING before they spend, and, Heaven forbid, saving some money;

 

6. A close examination of corrected securities indicates that those stocks most affected have been stocks with P/E ratios already higher than 25. What that means is that there have been huge drops is stocks being valued at 25 times earnings or more, which means that this correction is hammering the gross overtrading of ridiculously overvalued stocks;

 

7. A secondary analysis will show that NYSE stocks with little or no long-term debt have suffered very little market correction;

 

8. #6 and #7 should indicate, therefore, that we are being FORCED back into securities analysis based upon debt, and not inflated valuation. For those of you whom are younger, go check out a copy of Peter Lynch's 1991 classic One Up On Wall Street;

 

9. Gas prices are falling precipitously;

 

10. The run to secure private savings vehicles, such as credit union (NCUA-backed) CD's has been tremendous;

 

In all, this is 1987 re-visited. There will be tremendous opportunity for you as an investor to rise like a phoenix from the ashes in this market.

 

I urge all of you to CONTACT YOUR LEGISLATOR AGAIN. Tell them to shootdown the inevitable "Bailout II." Keep requiring them to shoot it down until all remnants of earmarks and anything but free market loans have been exorcized from the legislation. The only way to cure gluttony is with the sword and deprivation. We will all suffer enormously, but it is the only way to emerge cleanly for our children and grandchildren.

 

I invite comment.

 

 

I know this will surprise many, but I agree with you. Although, I must qualify myself as fairly stupid in the principles of economics and all that this entails in Modern America. I probably could understand it, but as I'll never be worth enough to worry about such complexity, I choose to remain largely ignorant. :lol:

 

I was gratified to see that John Yarmuth voted no. I am adamently opposed to being made responsible for irresponsibility and greed on the part of these financial institutions. I understand more "average" people stand to be hurt by this, but I do know this:

 

I, as a taxpayer, should not be held financially responsible for their irresponsibility.

I agree with most, however, I don't think they should ever approve the bailout. You're right, we will suffer, but the market will recover. It always does.

I agree with much of this. I wish #9 was true in Maysville, where unleaded gasoline is $3.75. While the price of crude oil may be dropping precipitously, the pumps here aren't following suit.

 

A friend just got back from New Jersey. He said that there is a mandate (I don't know if it's state-wide or not) that customers can't pump their own; an attendant must do so. Gas was in the $3.30s there.

I agree with much of this. I wish #9 was true in Maysville, where unleaded gasoline is $3.75. While the price of crude oil may be dropping precipitously, the pumps here aren't following suit.

 

A friend just got back from New Jersey. He said that there is a mandate (I don't know if it's state-wide or not) that customers can't pump their own; an attendant must do so. Gas was in the $3.30s there.

 

I'll double check, but I think in Jersey that it's always been a law that attendant's had to pump gas.

 

Let me check....

Yep, New Jersey and Oregon.

 

 

http://www.infoplease.com/askeds/bans-gas-pumping.html

I know this will surprise many, but I agree with you. Although, I must qualify myself as fairly stupid in the principles of economics and all that this entails in Modern America. I probably could understand it, but as I'll never be worth enough to worry about such complexity, I choose to remain largely ignorant. :lol:

 

I was gratified to see that John Yarmuth voted no. I am adamently opposed to being made responsible for irresponsibility and greed on the part of these financial institutions. I understand more "average" people stand to be hurt by this, but I do know this:

 

I, as a taxpayer, should not be held financially responsible for their irresponsibility.

 

 

I, too, was gratified to see that Yarmuth was opposed, as was Whitfield, Davis, and surprisingly enough, Ben Chandler.

 

Lewis, who is not running for re-election, voted for it, just a last step in a miserably ineffective term of office for him. The other guy who voted for it was Hal Rogers, and I'm sorry but you Eastern Kentucky folks need to get him out of there.

 

RM, we as consumers bear as much responsibility here as the financial institutions. We are just as guilty applying for a $300,000 loan on $30,000 per year income as the banks are for lending it to us. I do not feel sorry for those Americans who are going to be hoisted on their own pitard as a result of this, or the innocent ones who stood idly by and watched it happen and said "I'll protect mine." We are a nation, we take the bad with the good, and we're all in it together.

I, too, was gratified to see that Yarmuth was opposed, as was Whitfield, Davis, and surprisingly enough, Ben Chandler.

 

Lewis, who is not running for re-election, voted for it, just a last step in a miserably ineffective term of office for him. The other guy who voted for it was Hal Rogers, and I'm sorry but you Eastern Kentucky folks need to get him out of there.

 

RM, we as consumers bear as much responsibility here as the financial institutions. We are just as guilty applying for a $300,000 loan on $30,000 per year income as the banks are for lending it to us. I do not feel sorry for those Americans who are going to be hoisted on their own pitard as a result of this, or the innocent ones who stood idly by and watched it happen and said "I'll protect mine." We are a nation, we take the bad with the good, and we're all in it together.

 

I have never applied for a loan for more than $2500. :lol: No...I don't own a house. And that's because I knew that I couldn't afford it. I have always paid cash for my cars, and I don't have credit cards. I have lived in fear of getting stuff and losing it because I couldn't pay for it all my life. I learned my lesson young. I don't blame the financial institutions solely. It's the responsibility of the person taking the loan to know their limits. And, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Maybe we're all in it together, but I sure as heck don't feel like a taxpayer bailout is the answer.

I have never applied for a loan for more than $2500. :lol: No...I don't own a house. And that's because I knew that I couldn't afford it. I have always paid cash for my cars, and I don't have credit cards. I have lived in fear of getting stuff and losing it because I couldn't pay for it all my life. I learned my lesson young. I don't blame the financial institutions solely. It's the responsibility of the person taking the loan to know their limits. And, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Maybe we're all in it together, but I sure as heck don't feel like a taxpayer bailout is the answer.

 

Good for you, RM.

 

Will you send a letter to Yarmuth telling him to opposed Bailout II?

I, too, was gratified to see that Yarmuth was opposed, as was Whitfield, Davis, and surprisingly enough, Ben Chandler.

 

Lewis, who is not running for re-election, voted for it, just a last step in a miserably ineffective term of office for him. The other guy who voted for it was Hal Rogers, and I'm sorry but you Eastern Kentucky folks need to get him out of there.

 

RM, we as consumers bear as much responsibility here as the financial institutions. We are just as guilty applying for a $300,000 loan on $30,000 per year income as the banks are for lending it to us. I do not feel sorry for those Americans who are going to be hoisted on their own pitard as a result of this, or the innocent ones who stood idly by and watched it happen and said "I'll protect mine." We are a nation, we take the bad with the good, and we're all in it together.

As long as the pork rolls through that area, it will never happen. They vote him out and that area of the state won't see any more federal dollars. Never happen. He'll die in office first.

As long as the pork rolls through that area, it will never happen. They vote him out and that area of the state won't see any more federal dollars. Never happen. He'll die in office first.

 

How long has he been in office, how much has been acquired in pork, and where as a general statement, has Eastern Kentucky prospered? He is part of the game, and EKY needs to open their eyes.

 

Anne Northup brought a lot to Louisville, and the city has palpable, tangible prosperity to show for it. Rogers' pork has gotten his constituency nowhere.

How long has he been in office, how much has been acquired in pork, and where as a general statement, has Eastern Kentucky prospered? He is part of the game, and EKY needs to open their eyes.

 

Anne Northup brought a lot to Louisville, and the city has palpable, tangible prosperity to show for it. Rogers' pork has gotten his constituency nowhere.

 

Well, except for our no bridges to somewhere. :lol:

As soon as the bill passes gas will go right back up probably to $4.00.