October 28, 200817 yr I have posted in many other threads about this. This is the key issue of today...and tomorrow. This country needs a "comprehensive" energy policy using as much of the resources we have domestically. But...people need to understand that we arent in a energy crisis...we are in a liquid fuels crisis. The solution is simple...we need to use all of our domestic resources to create diesel fuels. This can be done with Natural gas, Coal, and bio-products. All of these can be used in a gasifier and a fischer-tropps (or like unit) to produce the fuels. This incorporates biofuels into the equation (which is not ethanol). Diesel fuel is the first and easiest stream created. The first thing to do is use the fuel on all fleets. Second is to convert airlines and air travel over to the synthetic jet fuel. While the country is making this conversion the auto plants can gear up to start producing more diesel engined cars. BTW, diesel engines burn cleaner and are more efficient.
October 28, 200817 yr Listening to members of either party talk about energy solutions is, in my mind, about as entertaining and useful as hitting yourself in the head with a tack hammer. I have a couple things I'm personally interested in: - Eliminate the trade barriers to ethanol produced in South America. Ethanol-based vehicles are more viable if the better and easier-to-produce sugar-based ethanol is used. - That said, ethanol probably ain't the answer. Electricity was and has always been the future of transportation. I want my electric car. - I like the idea of nuclear power based on how clean it is. But I worry about waste. How long can we continue to bury the stuff with impunity?
February 8, 200917 yr Author Bringing this one back up to the top now that someone else has mentioned the topic in another thread.
February 8, 200917 yr I guess I'll start PART 2 of this thread off with this idea. United States being an "energy independent" country is a long way out, especially if you think wind turbines are going to do the job.
February 8, 200917 yr Author Honestly I have always been iffy on wind Turbines and there are serious environmental impacts that I don't think many people really want to address. How would it affect bird and insect populations that are essential to pollinating plants. How would it affect air currents and weather patterns? Additionally there is the problem with energy storage and release. A wind turbine will not run at a constant speed and as such will generate varying degrees of power depending on the time of day and ambient weather conditions. Batteries that can readily hold the charge needed and then rapidly discharge it when it is needed during peak demand times and then recharge during higher speeds are still years off. Wind power is not the way to go. I agree.
February 8, 200917 yr I think Biodiesel is the first step for the transportation issue. Requires no modification to the current infrastructure (fueling stations, refineries, holding tanks, vehicles that use it). BD is less toxic than table salt. BD is also much more efficient than ethanol because the energy to make BD is much less. BD is carbon neutral as it adds no more new carbon into the atmosphere. Diesels are also much more efficient vehicles than gasoline or ethanol based engines. Traditionally, biodiesel has been created from seed oils from plants (soy, canola, veg). However the most compelling current research is creating biodiesel from oil from algae. http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html I think this would act as a nice bridge to an electric transportation grid, fueled by nuclear power (pebble bed as discussed above). Fusion or Hydrogen power is the holy grail, however not sure many of us will see that in our lifetime.
February 9, 200917 yr We need to start by tapping into our own resources and keeping the trillions of dollars from flowing out of this counrty to the Middle East. There is in excess of 800 billion barrels of recoverable shale oil in the Green River Formation. At current our current rate of consumption that alone would last 110 years. Once that money begins to stay in this country then it can be invested into other forms of energy production. One thing for certain about Pickens, whatever he is sugesting, he stands to make a fortune. I have a difficult time having a great deal of respect for a guy who has made a fortune by buying up US businesses so he can own the name. Then close the facilities here and make the products in China, and then come out and say he knows how to fix what is wrong in our country.
February 9, 200917 yr I think Biodiesel is the first step for the transportation issue. Requires no modification to the current infrastructure (fueling stations, refineries, holding tanks, vehicles that use it). BD is less toxic than table salt. BD is also much more efficient than ethanol because the energy to make BD is much less. BD is carbon neutral as it adds no more new carbon into the atmosphere. Diesels are also much more efficient vehicles than gasoline or ethanol based engines. Traditionally, biodiesel has been created from seed oils from plants (soy, canola, veg). However the most compelling current research is creating biodiesel from oil from algae. http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html I think this would act as a nice bridge to an electric transportation grid, fueled by nuclear power (pebble bed as discussed above). Fusion or Hydrogen power is the holy grail, however not sure many of us will see that in our lifetime. BD is way more corrosive than diesel.
February 9, 200917 yr BD is way more corrosive than diesel. Corrosive to what? Maybe rubber, but both are corrosive to rubber. Some metals as well (tin, copper, lead, brass, zinc, bronze) but those metals are not typically used in diesel fuel systems. See the third link page 4 about compatibility of BD. Diesel and BD are corrosive to rubber. The seals and gaskets in diesel engines today are mostly made of viton or teflon today which is fine for BD. Older diesels with rubber or nitrile seals would need to be modified. On a side note, I am also actually interested to see how the recent switch to ULSD effects those seals in some older vehicles as the extra sulfur in LSD had some lubricating properties. BD is no more corrosive to storage tanks than diesel or heating oil. Both diesel fuel and heating oil as well biodiesel independently or blended as one fuel are all susceptible to numerous fuel quality deficiencies. In short if fuel systems have water ultimately the diesel fuel user will face micro biologics, corrosive activity and fuel instability. The number one contaminant in fuel is water and it is very important that you make sure if water is in a fuel tank that you immediately get rid of it. Biodiesel is no more a driver in this phenonmeum than diesel fuel itself. I have heard of free methanol in BD reacting with some zinc coatings in pipes transferring fuel from tanks, but there are also plenty of alternatives to those pipes with little added cost. Water in fuel is still the largest problem in regard to corrosion. IMO these are much easier issues to deal with than CNG where we would have to change the entire infrastructure of the delivery and storage systems. BD is also much safer than ethanol as well with its high flash point. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VP5-4TTMNKC-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=6b5af61cf76b2c536d20499da70346be http://www.biodiesel.org/askben/top10/ http://www.nora-oilheat.org/site20/uploads/factfinding1.pdf
February 9, 200917 yr Corrosive to what? Maybe rubber, but both are corrosive to rubber. Some metals as well (tin, copper, lead, brass, zinc, bronze) but those metals are not typically used in diesel fuel systems. See the third link page 4 about compatibility of BD. Diesel and BD are corrosive to rubber. The seals and gaskets in diesel engines today are mostly made of viton or teflon today which is fine for BD. Older diesels with rubber or nitrile seals would need to be modified. On a side note, I am also actually interested to see how the recent switch to ULSD effects those seals in some older vehicles as the extra sulfur in LSD had some lubricating properties. BD is no more corrosive to storage tanks than diesel or heating oil. Both diesel fuel and heating oil as well biodiesel independently or blended as one fuel are all susceptible to numerous fuel quality deficiencies. In short if fuel systems have water ultimately the diesel fuel user will face micro biologics, corrosive activity and fuel instability. The number one contaminant in fuel is water and it is very important that you make sure if water is in a fuel tank that you immediately get rid of it. Biodiesel is no more a driver in this phenonmeum than diesel fuel itself. I have heard of free methanol in BD reacting with some zinc coatings in pipes transferring fuel from tanks, but there are also plenty of alternatives to those pipes with little added cost. Water in fuel is still the largest problem in regard to corrosion. IMO these are much easier issues to deal with than CNG where we would have to change the entire infrastructure of the delivery and storage systems. BD is also much safer than ethanol as well with its high flash point. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VP5-4TTMNKC-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=6b5af61cf76b2c536d20499da70346be http://www.biodiesel.org/askben/top10/ http://www.nora-oilheat.org/site20/uploads/factfinding1.pdf It causes serious problems in retrofitted vehicles but new ones will take that into consideration. ULSD is causing major problems in older trucks, but the government wanted that in a way, so people have to upgrade.
February 9, 200917 yr It causes serious problems in retrofitted vehicles but new ones will take that into consideration. ULSD is causing major problems in older trucks, but the government wanted that in a way, so people have to upgrade. Good point. I figured that the lower sulfur would cause some problems. Unfortunately, I am not sure if BD has enough political backing to make a good bridge. Many still try to link current diesels with the dirty, clunky, noisy ones of the past.
June 22, 201016 yr Author Given the fact that we have renewed discussions regarding energy this might be a good time to bring this one back up.
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