Jesus sure judged people's religion and gave us a pretty good model of it calling out other Christians that are not doing things that they are supposed to do.

 

Paul called Peter out for doing things that he wasn't supposed to do.

 

So there is no "Judge not, least yet too be judged?"

So there is no "Judge not, least yet too be judged?"

 

What you have posted here (and conveniently left off Jesus' last words in the Scripture that you have quoted) says if you judge, you will be judged too.

 

Jesus' finished off the scripture by telling her to go and sin no more.

 

TBAG, did Jesus hold the religious leaders of the day to a standard and call them on it when they did not meet that standard?

Did Jesus hold his apostles to a standard and call them on it when they did not meet that standard?

 

Did Paul give us means to address a person who is a Christian and not living a Christian life?

Do you feel the same way about the DNC and bringing people out of poverty? THey sure mine that issue for votes?

 

I'd say the DNC would hate to lose that bloc, but I think the DNC also doesn't fear that bloc giving up voting and/or flipping to the Dem side the way most single-issue anti-abortion voters would do once they had the satisfaction that God's work had been done.

I'd say the DNC would hate to lose that bloc, but I think the DNC also doesn't fear that bloc giving up voting and/or flipping to the Dem side the way most single-issue anti-abortion voters would do once they had the satisfaction that God's work had been done.

 

Well, I can't argue that as many of the other issues I do align myself with the Dems more often.

LBBC, there are just as many people that call themselves Christians that support a war in a country that did NOT attack us. Some Christians think that is wrong. Some Christians think that any war is wrong. Some Christians don't believe in abortion, but also don't believe that it is their right to tell someone else what they can and cannot do with their own bodies.

 

Lastly, some Christians don't judge others "Christian-ness".

 

On those Christians who think war is wrong four points.

 

1) Were they voting for pro-life politicians BEFORE the war? I am guessing not really.

 

2) And remember there are more babies aborted in TWO DAYS in this country than in the ENTIRE time of the War. Both are horrible, sad ventures. Which has cost more Americans' lives?

 

3) While for the sake of argument let's concede the reason of going into the war was wrong, what has the baby done to deserve being killed?

 

4) On the point of telling someone else what to do with their body, are you saying you would support the legalization of prostitution and drug use? Or are you comfortable on those subjects telling people what they can do with their bodies?

We were told we would know them by their fruit. Pro choice or pro life is your fruit.

What you have posted here (and conveniently left off Jesus' last words in the Scripture that you have quoted) says if you judge, you will be judged too.

 

Jesus' finished off the scripture by telling her to go and sin no more.

 

TBAG, did Jesus hold the religious leaders of the day to a standard and call them on it when they did not meet that standard?

Did Jesus hold his apostles to a standard and call them on it when they did not meet that standard?

 

Did Paul give us means to address a person who is a Christian and not living a Christian life?

 

 

Actually LBBC I think he may have been referring to this scripture in Matthew 7

 

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

On those Christians who think war is wrong four points.

 

1) Were they voting for pro-life politicians BEFORE the war? I am guessing not really.

 

2) And remember there are more babies aborted in TWO DAYS in this country than in the ENTIRE time of the War. Both are horrible, sad ventures. Which has cost more Americans' lives?

 

3) While for the sake of argument let's concede the reason of going into the war was wrong, what has the baby done to deserve being killed?

 

4) On the point of telling someone else what to do with their body, are you saying you would support the legalization of prostitution and drug use? Or are you comfortable on those subjects telling people what they can do with their bodies?

 

 

 

You raise good points LBBC. However on #2 I think the use of the words "American's lives" is not the point in the "Just War" debate. Christians should not look at the activity of war from a "our side" mentality. It must be viewed from a lens of humanity as God's creation and God's view of all the people involved.

We were told we would know them by their fruit. Pro choice or pro life is your fruit.

 

I agree, just as justice and injustice is a fruit War making and Peace making is a fruit to examine the people of God.

Actually LBBC I think he may have been referring to this scripture in Matthew 7

 

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

 

Gotcha.

 

Hatz let me ask you. Do you see many incidents in the Gospels of Jesus pointing out to supposed religious people when they are not acting in accordance with what God would want?

 

And even the point above does not say to not judge AT ALL. Rather it points out that if you judge, than you will be judged too in the same manner.

 

Same as the Lord's prayer is the most dangerous prayer you could utter. "Forgive me as I forgive others." Very dangerous prayer if a Christian is not willing to forgive someone that has done them or their loved ones wrong.

You raise good points LBBC. However on #2 I think the use of the words "American's lives" is not the point in the "Just War" debate. Christians should not look at the activity of war from a "our side" mentality. It must be viewed from a lens of humanity as God's creation and God's view of all the people involved.

 

Good point. But even God used war for his purpose at times and indicates that he will again at the end of times.

Gotcha.

 

Hatz let me ask you. Do you see many incidents in the Gospels of Jesus pointing out to supposed religious people when they are not acting in accordance with what God would want?

 

And even the point above does not say to not judge AT ALL. Rather it points out that if you judge, than you will be judged too in the same manner.

 

Same as the Lord's prayer is the most dangerous prayer you could utter. "Forgive me as I forgive others." Very dangerous prayer if a Christian is not willing to forgive someone that has done them or their loved ones wrong.

 

 

:thumb: Solid points on all those. If there is a difference (and I don't really think there is one) it would be that Jesus was the one judging, not the followers. It's always dangerous to issue judgement in God's name. Not saying it isn't to be done but usually Jesus chose to issue judgement in ways that "picked and individual up" rather than tore them down. i.e. Woman at Samaritan Well and Adulteress you mentioned. Even at the Resurrection in Mark the angel tells the women to "Go and tell Peter and the disciples." I think that was a clear message from God to Peter about forgiveness and grace that restores.

Good point. But even God used war for his purpose at times and indicates that he will again at the end of times.

 

As you and others are fond of noting, the OT is not our "rule of thumb" though it is helpful. The NT and the person of Christ is our new model and through whom all things are to be interpreted. It's hard to see Jesus on the war model we sometimes use.

 

That's not to say all wars are of evil. Some are thrust upon us, of that I have no doubt. But even then there has to be a precise measuring of the calling of Christ found in Scripture over and against the waging of worldly death. That's why the "Just War" models were developed some 3 to 400 years after the church was established. In the first centuries the Christians did not marry themselves to the state but to the Kingdom of God first.

:thumb: Solid points on all those. If there is a difference (and I don't really think there is one) it would be that Jesus was the one judging, not the followers. It's always dangerous to issue judgement in God's name. Not saying it isn't to be done but usually Jesus chose to issue judgement in ways that "picked and individual up" rather than tore them down. i.e. Woman at Samaritan Well and Adulteress you mentioned. Even at the Resurrection in Mark the angel tells the women to "Go and tell Peter and the disciples." I think that was a clear message from God to Peter about forgiveness and grace that restores.

 

How about Jesus calling Peter Satan and telling him to get behind him? How about Jesus telling the disciples they were dull?

 

For those that were not "religious/Christian," he had a real "picked an individual up" way, but for those that were supposed to be following him, he was hard on them when they needed it.

As you and others are fond of noting, the OT is not our "rule of thumb" though it is helpful. The NT and the person of Christ is our new model and through whom all things are to be interpreted. It's hard to see Jesus on the war model we sometimes use.

 

That's not to say all wars are of evil. Some are thrust upon us, of that I have no doubt. But even then there has to be a precise measuring of the calling of Christ found in Scripture over and against the waging of worldly death. That's why the "Just War" models were developed some 3 to 400 years after the church was established. In the first centuries the Christians did not marry themselves to the state but to the Kingdom of God first.

 

On the bolded, that is a good rule of thumb for every Christian in any century.:thumb: