December 7, 200718 yr Thats up for debate. You've got an awful lot of quotes from some of the most respectable founding fathers that would say otherwise, but since a lot of this country has delusions of grandeour, why not.
December 7, 200718 yr This speech was a million times better http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16920600
December 7, 200718 yr You've got an awful lot of quotes from some of the most respectable founding fathers that would say otherwise, but since a lot of this country has delusions of grandeour, why not. Treaty of Tripoli, signed 1797 by President John Adams and ratified by the US Senate: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." [bold text, mine]
December 7, 200718 yr Treaty of Tripoli, signed 1797 by President John Adams and ratified by the US Senate: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/250641/our_founding_fathers_were_not_deists.html Try this one, it's hard to denounce a speech made in public on a particular date, but I"m sure people will try.
December 7, 200718 yr Treaty of Tripoli, signed 1797 by President John Adams and ratified by the US Senate: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." [bold text, mine] Yup. In 1797, we signed a treaty stating the US was not based on the Christian religion and Tripoli was our friend. Then in 1801 we went to war with them.:lol:
December 7, 200718 yr The founding fathers felt that people had the freedom to express any religion they wanted to, but they also stressed the importance of Christ and the Bible. Now you can't even say Merry Christmas during the holidays without offending somebody. Hmmmmm, I don't know could it be...SATAN!!!!
December 7, 200718 yr I can respect a persons faith. It plays no role. But doesn't a person's faith (or lack of) tend to define one's moral makeup and provide an indication of the type of decision making we can expect once he/she reaches office?
December 7, 200718 yr http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/250641/our_founding_fathers_were_not_deists.html Try this one, it's hard to denounce a speech made in public on a particular date, but I"m sure people will try. Good chance the founding fathers were Deists. Some were Christian, there is no doubt, but that article is not totally correct. The writer lumps Deists, Athiests, and Agnostics together by definition, which is incorrect. Deists belive in a Creator that watches from afar, but there are plenty of people that are Christians that belive that. But put that out of your mind, and strictly look at this. The fact that no religious test was written into the Constitution was so radical from the ideas of the day. Religion is only mentioned in EXCLUSIONARY terms. Jesus Christ, the Bible, Christianity, and God are not mentioned at all. The Decleration of Independence, at the time sets up the notion that the power of government is derived from the people. In 1776 this is Sacreligious. The ONLY place that ANY government could get power was from GOD. If our Founding Fathers were truly the great Christian men of the time, that we say they were, NO WAY would they have set things up this way.
December 7, 200718 yr A person's faith has really no bearing on whether or not I would vote for them or not. I applaud Romney for making this speech. Now I want to hear Huckabee promise America that he wouldn't base policy on his or the interpretation of biblical prophesy subscribed to by many of his fellow baptists. Disclosure: I'm Baptist formerly of the southern persuation. Huck did say just this when he was on Hardball last week.
December 7, 200718 yr Author A person's faith has really no bearing on whether or not I would vote for them or not. I applaud Romney for making this speech. Now I want to hear Huckabee promise America that he wouldn't base policy on his or the interpretation of biblical prophesy subscribed to by many of his fellow baptists. Disclosure: I'm Baptist formerly of the southern persuation. So, you don't want Huckabee to have a passion to love his neighbor and provide for those who are "least" as the Bible and Christ mandates? Or you just don't want him to use his faith in the areas that you disagree with Christians? Cause I see a Bible that calls on Christians to "love our neighbor" and "pray for our enemies." I think that is a pretty good foundation for a politician. Sorry, you don't.
December 7, 200718 yr Good chance the founding fathers were Deists. Some were Christian, there is no doubt, but that article is not totally correct. The writer lumps Deists, Athiests, and Agnostics together by definition, which is incorrect. Deists belive in a Creator that watches from afar, but there are plenty of people that are Christians that belive that. But put that out of your mind, and strictly look at this. The fact that no religious test was written into the Constitution was so radical from the ideas of the day. Religion is only mentioned in EXCLUSIONARY terms. Jesus Christ, the Bible, Christianity, and God are not mentioned at all. The Decleration of Independence, at the time sets up the notion that the power of government is derived from the people. In 1776 this is Sacreligious. The ONLY place that ANY government could get power was from GOD. If our Founding Fathers were truly the great Christian men of the time, that we say they were, NO WAY would they have set things up this way. :thumb:
December 7, 200718 yr Good chance the founding fathers were Deists. Some were Christian, there is no doubt, but that article is not totally correct. The writer lumps Deists, Athiests, and Agnostics together by definition, which is incorrect. Deists belive in a Creator that watches from afar, but there are plenty of people that are Christians that belive that. But put that out of your mind, and strictly look at this. The fact that no religious test was written into the Constitution was so radical from the ideas of the day. Religion is only mentioned in EXCLUSIONARY terms. Jesus Christ, the Bible, Christianity, and God are not mentioned at all. The Decleration of Independence, at the time sets up the notion that the power of government is derived from the people. In 1776 this is Sacreligious. The ONLY place that ANY government could get power was from GOD. If our Founding Fathers were truly the great Christian men of the time, that we say they were, NO WAY would they have set things up this way. Actually the founding fathers were Christian and ultimaltely came to America to practice their Christian faith freely. That's why they gave everyone else the same privelage of any religion they wanted too, but they said the country should be focused on Jesus, basically. When people stop fpllowing God and go their own seperate ways, bad things happen. It always has throughout history, and it still does. No doubt, it's the main problem with our country today.
December 7, 200718 yr Good chance the founding fathers were Deists. Some were Christian, there is no doubt, but that article is not totally correct. The writer lumps Deists, Athiests, and Agnostics together by definition, which is incorrect. Deists belive in a Creator that watches from afar, but there are plenty of people that are Christians that belive that. But put that out of your mind, and strictly look at this. The fact that no religious test was written into the Constitution was so radical from the ideas of the day. Religion is only mentioned in EXCLUSIONARY terms. Jesus Christ, the Bible, Christianity, and God are not mentioned at all. The Decleration of Independence, at the time sets up the notion that the power of government is derived from the people. In 1776 this is Sacreligious. The ONLY place that ANY government could get power was from GOD. If our Founding Fathers were truly the great Christian men of the time, that we say they were, NO WAY would they have set things up this way. Perhaps a closer re-reading of the Declaration of Independence is in order; particularly that part about how men are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights or the part about Nature's God. While it was a radical departure from history to establish a government that derived its power from the people, the Declaration of Independence clearly establishes the power of the people as being subordinate to God. Otherwise those rights would not be "inalienable rights". The rights of men do not come from goverment, but from their very nature as men, a creation of God. Your comments seem to imply that by establishing the goverment that they did they were rejecting or atleast ignoring Christian heritage. It is quite the contrary. It was their Christian heritage that made them place such a high value on the individual and that men had rights derived from God. I do agree with you that they did not mention Jesus, Christianity or the Bible. However, you are wrong when you state that they do not mention God. In fact, they mention God in the very first sentence. What is also very clear in reading the Declaration of Independence, the Founding Father refer to God using the most generic terms. They used these terms to be as inclusive as possible and is clearly an indication of the value they placed in religious toleration. IMHO, the Founding Fathers were clearly allowing for a range religious beliefs, not just Christian religous beliefs but it was their Christian beliefs that led them to be so tolerant.
December 7, 200718 yr Perhaps a closer re-reading of the Declaration of Independence is in order; particularly that part about how men are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights or the part about Nature's God. While it was a radical departure from history to establish a government that derived its power from the people, the Declaration of Independence clearly establishes the power of the people as being subordinate to God. Otherwise those rights would not be "inalienable rights". The rights of men do not come from goverment, but from their very nature as men, a creation of God. Your comments seem to imply that by establishing the goverment that they did they were rejecting or atleast ignoring Christian heritage. It is quite the contrary. It was their Christian heritage that made them place such a high value on the individual and that men had rights derived from God. I do agree with you that they did not mention Jesus, Christianity or the Bible. However, you are wrong when you state that they do not mention God. In fact, they mention God in the very first sentence. What is also very clear in reading the Declaration of Independence, the Founding Father refer to God using the most generic terms. They used these terms to be as inclusive as possible and is clearly an indication of the value they placed in religious toleration. IMHO, the Founding Fathers were clearly allowing for a range religious beliefs, not just Christian religous beliefs but it was their Christian beliefs that led them to be so tolerant. CC said that God is never mentioned in the Constitution, not the DI.
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