I still think that it was a bad move on the privates not to accept this compromise. I think it will just embolden the publics to seek out the split since the vote was so unanimous.

 

It’s true that privates voted against Prop 2. But it was not the privates that killed it. It was a state legislative subcommittee which voted 6-0 against the “compromise”. And if the KHSAA votes for another “compromise” which aims to separate publish and privates, I would expect another 6-0 vote against.

 

My honest opinion… I get the feeling the legislature understands exactly what is happening. They understand there are rules on the books against the very actions public schools accuse privates of doing. Yet the KHSAA either 1) refuses to enforce the rules, or 2) can’t find wide spread infractions by private schools. When asked why the KHSAA won’t enforce the recruiting rules, they say they don’t have enough personnel to investigate. It just does not pass muster.

You know it is really not worth the argument because if the private people thought the public were better funded, had better facilities etc. their children would attend those schools.

 

The entire reason the privates have overall better test scores is because of the parental involvement and the socio-economic class of the families. They do not have to take everyone and do not have to manage special ed programs, non-english speaking children etc. They do not have children who are hungry or have no pencils or paper.

 

I would put some of the public school children up against your privates anytime...it is just that we might have 25% of the kids with the advantages of the kids in the private schools and the privates have 95% As far as sports it is the same story, the kids that have some advantages do better. It is hard to excel at a sport when you can not even get a ride home from practice.

 

The bolded is somewhat misleading. The most recent national test results have comparable public school children at certain grade levels testing better than their private counterparts. The highest standardized test scores in the state at the high school level are at DuPont Manual.

I am not sure I follow the bolded. Perhaps you could explain.

 

And while I agree with your statement regarding Trinity's proposal that the KHSAA fund the hiring of investigators being rejected, I would add that in the discussion of same, the publics proposed that the private schools open their books and their test scores to public inspection, which was rejected by the privates. Just playing Devil's Advocate.

Every district is free to accept students as they see fit. Some accept students from outside the district, some don't. As far as opening the books, perphaps you could explain what you mean. Need based financial aid is awarded based on third party review by an outside agency. The ouside agency is from a list approved by the KHSAA. Are you suggesting that some question the integrity of these third party reviewers? What do test scores have to do with athletic participation?

The bolded is somewhat misleading. The most recent national test results have comparable public school children at certain grade levels testing better than their private counterparts. The highest standardized test scores in the state at the high school level are at DuPont Manual.

And the most selective school in the state is also Manual. I don't think it should surprise anyone that if you only let smart kids into your school, only smart kids graduate from your school.

During the discussion, inquiry was made as to whether the private schools would be willing to disclose the financial files of the private schools re: alumni giving, family financial statements, and the formula used by (in some cases outsourced) companies in arriving at financial aid figures.

 

In addition, their was discussion about disclosure of ACT/SAT tests (which some schools, like Trinity, were OK with, but others, like St. X, were not), admissions test results, and quarterly grade transcripts.

 

Some of those are already disclosed, others are not. Frankly, if I were a private school I wouldn't disclose them, either. I merely point out the fact as a point of further discussion.

 

Sounds like something an "independent investigator" would ask to receive. :lol: Of course private schools would not disclose things like alumni giving and family financial statements. Public schools know it will never be disclosed. They just asked in order to have something to point to and say, “What are you hiding?” Ludicrous.

Every district is free to accept students as they see fit. Some accept students from outside the district, some don't. As far as opening the books, perphaps you could explain what you mean. Need based financial aid is awarded based on third party review by an outside agency. The ouside agency is from a list approved by the KHSAA. Are you suggesting that some question the integrity of these third party reviewers? What do test scores have to do with athletic participation?

 

Yes, there are those that have questioned the integrity of the outside agencies. State administrative agencies are bamboozled by outside firms all the time, case in point, the search committee for the Department of Education in their most recent Commissioner search.

 

The publics discussion focused around reviewing family balance sheets in addition to the capital account statements of the private schools. I am sure that the belief is that the private schools themselves use additional funds, outside the formula, to supplement the need-based aid.

 

Again, I don't necessarily subscribe to this, I am just telling you what was discussed at the roundtable.

 

Test scores don't have anything to do with athletic participation other than quarterly grades to determine eligibility. I think the point here was that the publics don't believe that the standardized test scores (which privates aren't required to disclose and in many cases, they don't) at the private schools compare favorably with that of the publics, so they want to arm themselves with that so they can show the general public that the "better test score" mantra is a myth.

 

Again my caveat here is that I support private schools. I just see two sides to the argument and few are taking up on this board for the public side, so here I am.

Every district is free to accept students as they see fit. Some accept students from outside the district, some don't. As far as opening the books, perphaps you could explain what you mean. Need based financial aid is awarded based on third party review by an outside agency. The ouside agency is from a list approved by the KHSAA. Are you suggesting that some question the integrity of these third party reviewers? What do test scores have to do with athletic participation?

 

I don't agree with the bolded. Perhaps you could cite me to some law, but if the Nelson County School system decided to extend their boundaries into Bullitt and Spencer Counties, I think they would be exceeding their legal authority. They could, of course, CONTRACT, with those counties for students, but you and I both know that that is not a reality.

During the discussion, inquiry was made as to whether the private schools would be willing to disclose the financial files of the private schools re: alumni giving, family financial statements, and the formula used by (in some cases outsourced) companies in arriving at financial aid figures.

 

In addition, there was discussion about disclosure of ACT/SAT tests (which some schools, like Trinity, were OK with, but others, like St. X, were not), admissions test results, and quarterly grade transcripts.

 

Some of those are already disclosed, others are not. Frankly, if I were a private school I wouldn't disclose them, either. I merely point out the fact as a point of further discussion.

Alumni giving? NO! NO! and NO! It is no business of anyone except the parties involved. Trinity does disclose the SAT/ACT information for the school as a whole, but not for individual students. Why is that information relevant to the discussion of athletics. With regard to family financial statements, the decisions are made outside the school with no knowledge of athletic participation. This sounds like an attempt to embarass individual families. With regard to the bolded, it is my understanding that if need based financial aid is given to a student athlete, the amount MUST be determined by an outside agency.

Sounds like something an "independent investigator" would ask to receive. :lol: Of course private schools would not disclose things like alumni giving and family financial statements. Public schools know it will never be disclosed. They just asked in order to have something to point to and say, “What are you hiding?” Ludicrous.

 

I think that paints too broadly. The KHSAA's failure has been the ridiculous administrative review process. Would they use their subpoena power, the financial statements would be disclosed.

Alumni giving? NO! NO! and NO! It is no business of anyone except the parties involved. Trinity does disclose the SAT/ACT information for the school as a whole, but not for individual students. Why is that information relevant to the discussion of athletics. With regard to family financial statements, the decisions are made outside the school with no knowledge of athletic participation. This sounds like an attempt to embarass individual families. With regard to the bolded, it is my understanding that if need based financial aid is given to a student athlete, the amount MUST be determined by an outside agency.

 

The bolded is NOT the case, for instance, at the NCAA. Alumni giving must be reported as part of NCAA rules for any member institution, public or private. This is because Mr. Cardinal or Wildcat may very well be encouraging a student-athlete to attend based upon outside aid. Why would the same not be true for Mr. Shamrock, or for that matter, Mr. Briar Jumper? In the NCAA, they attribute that action to the school, no matter how hard they try to claim it is an independent act. I don't see high schools being that far off. In fact, I believe this is the case in Texas right now.

I don't agree with the bolded. Perhaps you could cite me to some law, but if the Nelson County School system decided to extend their boundaries into Bullitt and Spencer Counties, I think they would be exceeding their legal authority. They could, of course, CONTRACT, with those counties for students, but you and I both know that that is not a reality.

They can't accept extend their boundaries, but many districts can and do accept students from outside their district. If by contracting with other districts you mean allowing the money for those students to follow the kid, you are right, in most cases that isn't realistic. But then again, if that same student elects to attend a private school the money doesn't follow them either. It is my understanding that the school district is free to charge tuition for out of district students. Gosh, that sounds like a level playing field with the private schools.

The bolded is NOT the case, for instance, at the NCAA. Alumni giving must be reported as part of NCAA rules for any member institution, public or private. This is because Mr. Cardinal or Wildcat may very well be encouraging a student-athlete to attend based upon outside aid. Why would the same not be true for Mr. Shamrock, or for that matter, Mr. Briar Jumper? In the NCAA, they attribute that action to the school, no matter how hard they try to claim it is an independent act. I don't see high schools being that far off. In fact, I believe this is the case in Texas right now.

Let me be sure that I understand what you are saying. If I write a check to the University of Louisville for expansion of the library, that check must be reported to the NCAA? Makes no sense. When U of L fought to prevent donor lists being reported to the Courier Journal, were they trying to protect a list that had already been reported to the NCAA?

They can't accept extend their boundaries, but many districts can and do accept students from outside their district. If by contracting with other districts you mean allowing the money for those students to follow the kid, you are right, in most cases that isn't realistic. But then again, if that same student elects to attend a private school the money doesn't follow them either. It is my understanding that the school district is free to charge tuition for out of district students. Gosh, that sounds like a level playing field with the private schools.

 

1) Only with a contract and 2) only out-of-district, in-county students. For instance, even though the students over the line (Oldham Co.) off of Highway 22 are considered "Louisville," JCPS is never going to draw them into their district because they have no contract with Oldham County. I know this because my brother lives there and tried. However, Trinity and St. X both have students from that subdivision attending.

 

Nelson County and Bardstown have a reciprocal contract. But Nelson County will not get, for instance, any of the Hardin County students over the line in Fort Knox, much as that would be nice when 3,500 families move in down there in March '08. We are still limited to Nelson County. Bethlehem got Billy Jackson, Darvell Wilson, and Blake Stanley, from the Ft. Knox area. That is their leading rusher in '02, '03, '04, '05, '06, and presumably, '07.

 

I don't knock it, its just the way it is.

Let me be sure that I understand what you are saying. If I write a check to the University of Louisville for expansion of the library, that check must be reported to the NCAA? Makes no sense. When U of L fought to prevent donor lists being reported to the Courier Journal, were they trying to protect a list that had already been reported to the NCAA?

 

No, I'm sorry. Total alumni giving. Also, I believe there is some rule about individual gifts over a certain amount (like $5K or more).

1) Only with a contract and 2) only out-of-district, in-county students. For instance, even though the students over the line (Oldham Co.) off of Highway 22 are considered "Louisville," JCPS is never going to draw them into their district because they have no contract with Oldham County. I know this because my brother lives there and tried. However, Trinity and St. X both have students from that subdivision attending.

 

Nelson County and Bardstown have a reciprocal contract. But Nelson County will not get, for instance, any of the Hardin County students over the line in Fort Knox, much as that would be nice when 3,500 families move in down there in March '08. We are still limited to Nelson County. Bethlehem got Billy Jackson, Darvell Wilson, and Blake Stanley, from the Ft. Knox area. That is their leading rusher in '02, '03, '04, '05, '06, and presumably, '07.

 

I don't knock it, its just the way it is.

I still don't understand. Are they prohibitted from accepting out of county students or do they choose not to because they have no way to collect the money for those kids, absent a contract?