Thursday marks the 36th Anniversary of the U.S. Supreme Court's Decision in Cassius M. Clay v. U.S., 403 U.S. 698 (1971).

 

I consider this to be a landmark decision in our nation's history, one with far-reaching implications, and one with particular relevance to today, given the atmosphere of war and discussion of the relative tenets of Islam and Christianity, etc.

 

Here is a copy of the decision of the Court.

http://supreme.justia.com/us/403/698/case.html

 

The history of the case (not described in the article) is absolutely fascinating. No matter where you fall down on his stance, this truly was a man of great will.

 

The case was the focal point of this years Kentucky Bar Convention, and the subject of an entertaining skit put on by the Kentucky Historical Society in conjunction with the Ali Museum.

 

Three questions:

 

1. Has this country already decided that Islam is NOT a religion of violence?

 

2. Should a person have to manifest their conscientious objector status at the time they register with the Selective Service, as opposed to when war is imminent?

 

3. Should we force our citizenry to fight for their country against their will?

 

"I got no quarrel with them Vietcong!"

This is a case that has never been discussed in any of my laws classes before. I think it would be a great case for universities to cover as it would generate passionate feelings and good debate which is something college students need all the help with they can get.

Cassius Clay was truly a coward and a draft dodger, plain and simple.

Three questions:

 

1. Has this country already decided that Islam is NOT a religion of violence?

 

2. Should a person have to manifest their conscientious objector status at the time they register with the Selective Service, as opposed to when war is imminent?

 

3. Should we force our citizenry to fight for their country against their will?

 

"I got no quarrel with them Vietcong!"

1. I think most people would SAY this is true, but really believe otherwise.

 

2. Absolutely. They should also have to serve in a non-combatant position.

 

3. Only in times of national peril. Vietnam wasn't one of those times.

Cassius Clay was truly a coward and a draft dodger, plain and simple.

Nothing about war is plain and simple. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, but I respectfully disagree with you.

Cassius Clay was truly a coward and a draft dodger, plain and simple.

I really don't see how he was a coward. He had enough conviction to almost give up everything he had for what he believed.

Nothing about war is plain and simple. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, but I respectfully disagree with you.

You are correct, nothing about war is plain and simple, that imo is why he took the easy way (draft dodging way) out. I respect your opinon but I strongly disagree.

I really don't see how he was a coward. He had enough conviction to almost give up everything he had for what he believed.

There were a lot of brave young men that gave up much more than that. The "everything he had argument holds no water with me". Now, had Clay had stayed out of this country for good I might be more inclined to believe that. He came back to the country that he turned his back on and made his riches off of it.

I will not argue this point/subject anymore on here. I know that I said that the last time the Cassius Clay subject came up and I shouldn't have posted on it tis time. My opinion of Clay is not going to change and I know that others have opinions that are opposite and are not going to change. I will leave it at that dead end differences of opinion.

He never left the country unless you mean by him not going into the draft he left. I'm of the opinion that sometimes it takes more courage not to do something rather than going ahead and doing it.

 

I might be looking through rose colored glasses though since I was very big supporter of his.

^ I stated that wrong, what I meant to say was that if Cassius had left the country and had stayed out (not returned) then I would believe that his convictions were real.

Here are a couple of interesting facts about the Ali case that I had not known previously:

 

1. When Clay registered with the Selective Service and took the exam, he scored at a 16th percentile. At that time, you had to score in the 30th percentile or higher on the exam to pass, so he was listed as "ineligible for service." A couple of years later, the government changed their regulations to reflect that 15th percentile or higher was passing, and he was re-assessed as "eligible for service" without ever being re-tested.

 

2. Ali WON his initial case. After the SSA denied his CO status and Ali appealed, a 3 day trial was held before the SSA's designated hearing officer, retired Circuit Judge Laurence Baumann. Baumann was the judge who had the opportunity to see and hear all of the witnesses, review documents, and examine the credibility of everyone involved. Against immense pressure to do otherwise, he unreservedly recommended that Ali be granted CO status, finding that Ali's request was based upon a clearly articulated and firmly held personal religious conviction and that that conviction was sincere. The SSA later, without trial, overruled their own Hearing Officer on the basis of a DOJ memo that focused heavily on illegally recorded taped conversations between Ali and Elijah Muhammed.

 

3. Ali's tactical mistake early on may have been that in addition to claiming CO status, he also sought exemption on the grounds that he was a minister.

1. I think most people would SAY this is true, but really believe otherwise.

 

2. Absolutely. They should also have to serve in a non-combatant position.

 

3. Only in times of national peril. Vietnam wasn't one of those times.

So what if their beliefs change over time? We register for Selective service while teenagers. I think that there is still some room for emotional, intellectual and spiritual growth in there.

So what if their beliefs change over time? We register for Selective service while teenagers. I think that there is still some room for emotional, intellectual and spiritual growth in there.

Simply, like most government programs there would be a form for you to pick up at the Post Office that you would submit to change your status.

^ I stated that wrong, what I meant to say was that if Cassius had left the country and had stayed out (not returned) then I would believe that his convictions were real.

I see what you mean and never thought of it that way.:thumb: