June 17, 200719 yr Please keep the personal attacks out of it. I guess I'm out of my element. My element knows without a DNA match, the case gets tossed. And I don't need to spend $1MM to figure it out. The case does not get tossed just because there is no DNA match. It just means there is no DNA match. DNA is used in very few cases in this country, particularly sex cases. Too expensive, much more than the "few hundred dollars" you quote. This isn't a buccal swab in the mouth for child support and paternity. You are completely out of your element. As for the expenditure of defense funds, the only way that you will ever know is if you are one day wrongfully charged with a serious crime. No evidence, just an indictment. And you'll wonder whether you should have put aside more money, when your stuck trying to post bond and can't get it because you can't get your public defender to return your call. Pray it doesn't happen to you, but it happens to thousands in this country every day. Your comments trivilaize what Nifong did and what happended to these boys. You're right about the personal attack and I will self-report right now. In addition, I make a public apology to you.
June 17, 200719 yr The case does not get tossed just because there is no DNA match. It just means there is no DNA match. DNA is used in very few cases in this country, particularly sex cases. Too expensive, much more than the "few hundred dollars" you quote. This isn't a buccal swab in the mouth for child support and paternity. You are completely out of your element.As for the expenditure of defense funds, the only way that you will ever know is if you are one day wrongfully charged with a serious crime. No evidence, just an indictment. And you'll wonder whether you should have put aside more money, when your stuck trying to post bond and can't get it because you can't get your public defender to return your call. Pray it doesn't happen to you, but it happens to thousands in this country every day. Your comments trivilaize what Nifong did and what happended to these boys. You're right about the personal attack and I will self-report right now. In addition, I make a public apology to you. Once again, PLEASE don't get personal. You have no idea what my "element" is...Also, I'm not trivializing anything. The AG looked at a very simple set of facts and came to the very obvious conclusion that the Duke players were not guilty. Everyone on both sides except for one nut (Nifong) came to the same conclusion. You are talking about people in your post who can't make bail or get a public defender to work their case. I'm talking about the other 99.9% of the people who can get justice on a simple set of facts, and not pay lawyers $1MM, especially when there is, in your words, "no evidence, just an indictment." Nothing more, nothing less, nothing personal.
June 17, 200719 yr Please keep the personal attacks out of it. I guess I am out of my element. My element knows without a DNA match, the case gets tossed. WHICH IT DID. And my element doesn't need to spend $1MM to figure it out. Absoulutely wrong. You've been watching too much CSI. DNA match is not needed for sucessful prosecution.
June 17, 200719 yr Absoulutely wrong. You've been watching too much CSI. DNA match is not needed for sucessful prosecution. :thumb: Three middle-class kids would still be awaiting trial in this one.
June 17, 200719 yr Once again, PLEASE don't get personal. You have no idea what my "element" is...Also, I'm not trivializing anything. The AG looked at a very simple set of facts and came to the very obvious conclusion that the Duke players were not guilty. Everyone on both sides except for one nut (Nifong) came to the same conclusion. You are talking about people in your post who can't make bail or get a public defender to work their case. I'm talking about the other 99.9% of the people who can get justice on a simple set of facts, and not pay lawyers $1MM, especially when there is, in your words, "no evidence, just an indictment." Nothing more, nothing less, nothing personal. "Very simple set of facts" - over 150 witnesses, DNA evidence, alibi evidence, and a sex crime to boot. "Everyone on both sides . . . came to the same conclusion" - like Duke University, the Black Panthers, Al Sharpton, the office full of prosecutors with Nifong, 6 of the 10 investigating officers, and major media outlets around the world. "The other 99.9% of people who can get justice on a simple set of facts" - Again, there are thousands of people, every day, in this country, who are being prosecuted for crimes they did not commit, big and small, and they cannot afford to receive justice because there is no DNA test, they don't have the money, and because their attorneys just aren't up to snuff. It really is as simple as that.
June 17, 200719 yr Once again, PLEASE don't get personal. You have no idea what my "element" is...Also, I'm not trivializing anything. The AG looked at a very simple set of facts and came to the very obvious conclusion that the Duke players were not guilty. Everyone on both sides except for one nut (Nifong) came to the same conclusion. You are talking about people in your post who can't make bail or get a public defender to work their case. I'm talking about the other 99.9% of the people who can get justice on a simple set of facts, and not pay lawyers $1MM, especially when there is, in your words, "no evidence, just an indictment." Nothing more, nothing less, nothing personal. Maybe you should read the AG's report. Our investigation shows that: The eyewitness identification procedures were faulty and unreliable. No DNA confirms the accuser’s story. No other witness confirms her story. Other evidence contradicts her story. She contradicts herself. Next week, we’ll be providing a written summary of the important factual findings and some of the specific contradictions that have led us to the conclusion that no attack occurred. http://www.ncdoj.com/DocumentStreamerClient?directory=PressReleases/&file=Dismissal Statement Press.pdf
June 17, 200719 yr Maybe you should read the AG's report. Our investigation shows that: The eyewitness identification procedures were faulty and unreliable. No DNA confirms the accuser’s story. No other witness confirms her story. Other evidence contradicts her story. She contradicts herself. Next week, we’ll be providing a written summary of the important factual findings and some of the specific contradictions that have led us to the conclusion that no attack occurred. http://www.ncdoj.com/DocumentStreamerClient?directory=PressReleases/&file=Dismissal Statement Press.pdf My point exactly. A very simple set of facts.
June 17, 200719 yr OK, you guys have convinced me. If none of my DNA matched all other DNA found on her, including other men's, there is no other evidence supporting her claim, there IS other evidence that contradicts her claim, and she keeps changing her story, it's STILL going to cost me $1MM to beat the prosecution... :laugh: :walk:
June 17, 200719 yr Wearing a condom pretty much eliminates DNA evidence. So you would not have needed DNA to proceed...
June 17, 200719 yr Author The WHY did Nifong keep the case going AFTER he knew the DNA didn't match? It was December before Nifong turned the case over to the AG, WHY? Do you think that had the victims lawyers not put the intense pressure on Nifong and other that he would have turned this case over to the AG voluntarily when he seemed so unwilling to do anything that would clear the victims?
June 17, 200719 yr The WHY did Nifong keep the case going AFTER he knew the DNA didn't match? It was December before Nifong turned the case over to the AG, WHY? Do you think that had the victims lawyers not put the intense pressure on Nifong and other that he would have turned this case over to the AG voluntarily when he seemed so unwilling to do anything that would clear the victims? Nifnong is/was an idiot. All the more reason an easy win for the defense. I know dozens of lawyers who would have kicked the crap out of the prosecution, BEFORE AND OR/IF THE CASE EVER EVEN MADE IT TO TRIAL, for a very small percentage of $1MM...which once again is the bogus argument of the TV show that stated the Duke guys had were lucky they could affort $1MM...
June 17, 200719 yr Wearing a condom pretty much eliminates DNA evidence. So you would not have needed DNA to proceed... What would you need to proceed? What did they have? They had nothing.
June 17, 200719 yr Nifnong is/was an idiot. All the more reason an easy win for the defense. I know dozens of lawyers who would have kicked the crap out of the prosecution, BEFORE AND OR/IF THE CASE EVER EVEN MADE IT TO TRIAL, for a very small percentage of $1MM...which once again is the bogus argument of the TV show that stated the Duke guys had were lucky they could affort $1MM... Give me one, just one, name of such a lawyer. Do it in a private PM if you wish. I will accept the challenge to contact that lawyer, and my pledge is that lawyer will give me something in writing stating 1) that the Duke defense attorneys did an unbelievable job overcoming difficult odds and 2) that the money they charged to defend all of these players represents a fair estimation of the cost it reasonably took to mount that effort. If your lawyer gives me a response indicating that the defense was easy and that they could have accomplished the same thing for a fraction of $1M, I pledge to publicly declare you as the smartest person on BGP, and will pay for the cost of your choice of BGP paraphernalia at the BGP store. Or are you engaging in fatuous hyperbole?
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