April 9, 200719 yr For people who believe that these gifts are no longer present today, I'm just curious as to what scriptures have lead you to that conclusion.
April 9, 200719 yr For people who believe that these gifts are no longer present today, I'm just curious as to what scriptures have lead you to that conclusion. 1 Corinthians 13:8 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society 8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
April 9, 200719 yr 1 Corinthians 13:8 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society 8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. :thumb: Thanks. Are there others, or is that the only one?
April 9, 200719 yr :thumb: Thanks. Are there others, or is that the only one? Only one I could find in a quick search.
April 9, 200719 yr 1 Corinthians 13:8 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society 8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. This is out of context. 1 Corinthians 13 Love 1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing. 4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror(or as the KJV says, 'through a glass, darkly"); then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. I believe that what it means in verse 8 is that these things, prophecies, tongues and knowledge, will all pass at the 2nd coming of Christ when we receive perfection. I'm always amazed at the number of famous sayings that come from the Bible and people don't realize it. I.e. "by the skin of his teeth" "through a glass, darkly".
April 9, 200719 yr This is out of context. 1 Corinthians 13 Love 1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing. 4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror(or as the KJV says, 'through a glass, darkly"); then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. I believe that what it means in verse 8 is that these things, prophecies, tongues and knowledge, will all pass at the 2nd coming of Christ when we receive perfection. I'm always amazed at the number of famous sayings that come from the Bible and people don't realize it. I.e. "by the skin of his teeth" "through a glass, darkly". I have heard the view that is referring to Jesus' first coming as he was perfect then. How do you come to the view of 2nd coming?
April 9, 200719 yr I have heard the view that is referring to Jesus' first coming as he was perfect then. How do you come to the view of 2nd coming? Because he says, Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
April 9, 200719 yr I have heard the view that is referring to Jesus' first coming as he was perfect then. How do you come to the view of 2nd coming? I think his point was that we, not Jesus, will be perfected at His second coming.
April 9, 200719 yr Author Move on down to the next chapter 14 and it goes even more into it. Paul spoke in a Tongue but it mentions in verses 18 and 19... "In the Church speaking five words that are understandable has more benefit than speaking ten thousand words in a tongue".
April 9, 200719 yr When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.
April 9, 200719 yr List of gifts from... Romans 12:6-8 --> prophecy, ministry, teaching, exhortation, giving, leading, mercy 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 --> wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, tongues, interpretations of tongues Ephesians 4:11 --> apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers I've read nothing in the Bible that leads me to the conclusion than any of these gifts have passed away. I believe that they still exist and are still bestowed upon believers today as the Holy Spirit sees fit. My understanding of 1 Corinthians 13, briefly, is that Paul is stating the superiority of love over all other gifts from God and that without love everything else is meaningless. As for chapter 14, my understanding is that he's making the point that there are gifts that are more beneficial to the body as a whole than tongues, and thus they are better and more desirable. I also think he is instructing in the proper use of tongues (and cautioning about its misuse).
April 10, 200719 yr Author The Gifts mentioned in Romans are Gifts given to people for meeting the needs to help the Church body. These are Gifts that you and I would use today. Serving, teaching, encourageingh others, Contributing to the needs of others, leadership, to Govern, showing mercy, those type of Gifts. The other gifts were for the Apostles and there are no Apostles in today's time. When they had to travel to different lands they had to be able to tell the natives about the Gospel. How could they? They were given the power to speak in that Native tongue so they could understand the Gospel. I cannot speak in tongues but I have several gifts that are mentioned before and I can tell you have some Gifts also. When we speak before others we must be understood and when someone speaks in "tongues" there is no way to understand what is being said and that doesn't help the church. If someone wants to pray to God with "tongues" and feel like its bringing them closer to God I'd say go for it, but do it alone. Also thank you for coming back with some great points I enjoy reading your comments.
April 10, 200719 yr Here is something I see in Corinthians about Paul talking about speaking without an interpertor. Being raised pentecsotal I can see things a little more from his eyes. In some churches I have seen people stand up and speak in tongues in a manner it disrupts the whole church and people will do it again and again and stop the whole service. Paul IMO (which you can take how you want it) is telling them if they arent an interpertor quit disrupting the whole service. But I have got in my own little place at churcha nd spoke in tongues and it has not affected anyone else is service. And I do see the view earlier of the second comming, because we will all be perfected. And it is imposible for prophecy to sease right now because we are living in a time in which Revelation has come to life almost and procey is being fullfilled every day.
April 10, 200719 yr Not to belittle this conversation at all but Belfry's comment about people not understanding what you are saying and trying to tell them reminds me of my job of teaching teenagers. We had a discussion this morning about the dangers of drugs as a person overdosed on heroin last night. And as I pleaded with them to stay away from drugs, they looked at me like I was speaking in tongues.
April 10, 200719 yr The Gifts mentioned in Romans are Gifts given to people for meeting the needs to help the Church body. These are Gifts that you and I would use today. Serving, teaching, encourageingh others, Contributing to the needs of others, leadership, to Govern, showing mercy, those type of Gifts. The other gifts were for the Apostles and there are no Apostles in today's time. When they had to travel to different lands they had to be able to tell the natives about the Gospel. How could they? They were given the power to speak in that Native tongue so they could understand the Gospel. I cannot speak in tongues but I have several gifts that are mentioned before and I can tell you have some Gifts also. When we speak before others we must be understood and when someone speaks in "tongues" there is no way to understand what is being said and that doesn't help the church. If someone wants to pray to God with "tongues" and feel like its bringing them closer to God I'd say go for it, but do it alone. Also thank you for coming back with some great points I enjoy reading your comments. That's not really the way I interpret it. Wisdom, knowledge and faith, just to take three that aren't listed in Romans, seem to be very much present today. But, to get back on the topic of tongues instead of spiritual gifts as a whole, I have to say that I'm very skeptical of people speaking in tongues. That's just me personally. My understanding of tongues from reading the bible is that it usually meant one of two things...1) the believers could speak in their own language and everyone in the crowd would hear it in their language, or 2) the believers were given the ability to speak in the language of the crowd they were addressing From Paul's writings, it also seems that a person can speak in tongues during prayer. In one verse (can't recall it right away) he seems to imply that it is the Spirit making intercession for us. Also, in 1 Corinthians 14, the way I read it anyway, is that he is saying that tongues should be used sparingly in a church service, but more often they should be practiced in private...as he states, they are for the edification of the believer, while the other gifts are for the edification of the whole body of believers. To sum it up, I still think people can have the gift of tongues today...I've heard stories from people who said they were praying and suddenly started praying in tongues, as if the Spirit had taken over, which is I suppose is exactly what happened. That's never happened to me, but the people I heard it from would not make it up. If they say it happened, then it happened from my view. So, I really believe it is in use today for certain in that sense. As for preachers and people in a church service just talking in tongues frequently, I am highly skeptical. Most of the times I've heard it, it just sounds like they're saying the same syllables over and over (kinda like the Kling-Ons, I know I spelled that wrong, from Star Trek)...so, from my own personal view that since no one knows what they're saying, no one is really getting anything out of it, and Paul's writing in Chapter 14 of Corinthians, I just have a high degree of doubt. Maybe it's wrong for me to be that way, but as of now I just can't get past that feeling about it. Tongues has always been an interesting, and tough subject for me, so I really enjoy this thread. I have changed my view on it some from past studies, so we'll see.
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