The Expense of Felonizing Our Populace

[Hearsay]

Prisons, probation, parole, and its concomitant costs is moving up the political charts as a major economic issue.

 

Professor Robert Lawson of the UK School of Law (one of Kentucky's leading legal authorities), wrote this article some time ago, and I would like feedback and response on it.

 

He essentially argues we are so bent upon making everybody a felon and putting them in prison that the costs are going to overload the budget. He argues for total overhaul of the criminal justice system.

 

http://www.uky.edu/Law/Lawson_2006.pdf

 

WARNING - this is very long

[Habib]

As dreadful as the research here is, it is becoming increasingly less surprising. The growing problems, and populations, of our prisons and jails is the elephant in the room. A lot of people, citizens and elected officials, know that their is an enormous problem here, but turning a blind eye to it is much easier than dealing with it. I'm about 3/4 of the way through the reading and I have to take off, so I don't know what the author advocates, or if he does at all in this particular article. But, from what I understand, there aren't any clear solutions, yet I think there are probably a handful of changes that can be made to start us in the right direction.

[acemona]

The number one deterrent to crime is education. And we will never start to reduce the money we spend on jails until we increase the money spent on education.

 

Julian Carroll (FWIW), while running for State Senate had some startling numbers on the differences in spending on 1 inmate vs. 1 student. UNBELIEVABLE.

[ladiesbballcoach]

The number one deterrent to crime is education. And we will never start to reduce the money we spend on jails until we increase the money spent on education.

 

Julian Carroll (FWIW), while running for State Senate had some startling numbers on the differences in spending on 1 inmate vs. 1 student. UNBELIEVABLE.

Disagree as we have more and more educated people participating in major embezzlement or fraud.

 

Their priorities are grown up involving money, stature and prestige rather than the things that are truly important in life. And putting that into a child is not the purpose of schools.

 

It is the importance of family, a complete and whole family with both parents, one father and one mother, working together to instill the proper values and faith.

[colonel-fan]

I say this as staunch NKY Republican, not a "bleeding heart liberal", but I believe drug addiction needs to be treated as a medical condition and (taking the next step) drugs need to be legalized. It is obvious that drug use is here to stay (like alcohol use) and the current system we've set up to deal with the problem is not working. Drug offenders weigh down our jail/detention capacity and the money and "prestige" given to drug dealers in our cities is frightening.

[acemona]

Disagree as we have more and more educated people participating in major embezzlement or fraud.

 

Their priorities are grown up involving money, stature and prestige rather than the things that are truly important in life. And putting that into a child is not the purpose of schools.

 

It is the importance of family, a complete and whole family with both parents, one father and one mother, working together to instill the proper values and faith.

 

I think it would be important to check the statistics of those incarcerated. I am sure you will find that the majority are poor and uneducated.

 

We no longer have jobs for those who drop out, and we don't have enough teachers to teach all those who stay.

[ladiesbballcoach]

I think it would be important to check the statistics of those incarcerated. I am sure you will find that the majority are poor and uneducated.

 

We no longer have jobs for those who drop out, and we don't have enough teachers to teach all those who stay.

Two things to address:

1)Yes, they are uneducated. I was at a Professional development that indicated that the rate of growth in prisons is in direct relation to the number of citizens who cannot read. No doubt that education is a good indication of a life of crime.

 

2)Education begins and is anchored at home NOT IN SCHOOLS. The old saying, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink" comes into play. If education is not valued in the home, it will most likely not be valued by the child no matter what the school does. You send homework home and the parents tell the child they don't have to do it.

 

In addition, so much of the basics in reading, writing (knowing your alphabet and being able to write your name) occurs at home before they ever get to school.

 

To combat that problem (the lack of emphasis on learning), schools are NOW accepting students that are labeled at-risk (the students that you are talking about) at the age of 3.

[acemona]

Two things to address:

1)Yes, they are uneducated. I was at a Professional development that indicated that the rate of growth in prisons is in direct relation to the number of citizens who cannot read. No doubt that education is a good indication of a life of crime.

 

2)Education begins and is anchored at home NOT IN SCHOOLS. The old saying, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink" comes into play. If education is not valued in the home, it will most likely not be valued by the child no matter what the school does. You send homework home and the parents tell the child they don't have to do it.

 

In addition, so much of the basics in reading, writing (knowing your alphabet and being able to write your name) occurs at home before they ever get to school.

 

To combat that problem (the lack of emphasis on learning), schools are NOW accepting students that are labeled at-risk (the students that you are talking about) at the age of 3.

 

Can we change the conditions of the homes? I think not, so we have to take care of them at school, or we are destinying them for a rough life.

[Habib]

An increase in spending for education is not going to make people less prone to crime. They will still drop out of school, refuse to go, or just "get by" until they are done. Crime is more closely related to economic conditions. We also have to thank the "War on Drugs" for the increase in prison population as well. While I'm not a drug advocate, there are better ways to treat drug addiction/abuse than prison, where drugs are just as easily accessible.

[acemona]

An increase in spending for education is not going to make people less prone to crime. They will still drop out of school, refuse to go, or just "get by" until they are done. Crime is more closely related to economic conditions. We also have to thank the "War on Drugs" for the increase in prison population as well. While I'm not a drug advocate, there are better ways to treat drug addiction/abuse than prison, where drugs are just as easily accessible.

 

 

And economic conditions are strongly related to the level of education. I am not worried about fancier schools or more technology. You simply need more teachers and to get more teachers you have to pay more. The #1 predictor of student success is teacher:student ratio.

[Frances Bavier]

... The #1 predictor of student success is teacher:student ratio.

 

I don't know how to lay my hands on it, but I have seen it written (several times) that the #1 predictor of student success is having a mother with a college degree. The corelation is absolutely stunning.

 

 

Frances

[acemona]

I don't know how to lay my hands on it, but I have seen it written (several times) that the #1 predictor of student success is having a mother with a college degree. The corelation is absolutely stunning.

 

 

Frances

 

i won't disagree, I will simply rephrase my proposition.

 

The #1 predictor of student success - that can be controlled by the schools - is student teacher ratio.

[Frances Bavier]

i won't disagree, I will simply rephrase my proposition.

 

The #1 predictor of student success - that can be controlled by the schools - is student teacher ratio.

 

No problem, acemona. I didn't mean to imply that you were trying to mislead anyone. I was simply relaying what I thought was a more accurate statement. As I said, I don't know if I could even find a link that would support that statement. :thumb:

 

 

Frances

[Diamond Dandy]

Those arrested for drug usage should be treated as an outpatient offender monitored by Parol Officers.

 

Those dealing should be incarcerated.

 

Violent crime offenders of course need to be incarcerated.

 

Theft, and white collar crime should be procecuted like civil suites, with the loss of personal property, ie your car, your house, your bank accounts ect. rather then a jail term.

 

With the boom in GPS systems, we can monitor minor offenders from a service center a heck of a lot cheaper then building jail after jail after jail.

[CoachBuckett]

I look at Crime the same way I look at Education.

 

The only way to do both is to have everyone at the same level of income. Because it's a known fact that the more wealth you have the better education you can recieve. If you come from a family that doesn't have to struggle and you can get an education. Then you don't have to sell CRACK. You can go a get a job and live that American dream of the nice house with the white pickett fence. So solve Poverty and you will solve a lot of America's socail problems.