ATL, I find it humorous that you are so quick to point out both PT's and Caldwells "flaws" as you say, while turning a blind eye to your own.

You know what they say about glass houses don't you?

#3 Typically although a team may not directly strip a ball, a defense that is able to force it's opponent into an uncomfortable situation leads to mistakes on the offensive side of the ball. Whether that be with speed, toughness, score, or whatever.

#5 I agree we will never agree on this one. I think the stats speak for themselves.

#7 I don't know if that could be considered a totally neutral site, but it is better than a home game. I also think that Mayfield may disagree that Bright isn't a big step up.

#10 I almost agree, but you are dismissing PT, and they have the ability to make a run themselves. Just as much as does Caldwell.

 

From there on we are pretty much in agreement. Other than if you put Belfry in Regions I am sure they're the preseason favorite, but Caldwell sure wasn't and honestly not due it. They had to play their way there. Picked no higher than 3rd preseason. Add Belfry to a Caldwell, PT region and it becomes the toughest pound for pound in the state or at least rivals region 2.

 

I did diminish Belfry somewhat over their accomplishments. Shouldn't have done that, and didn't intend that. More of the despairment mentioned in #5.

ATL, I find it humorous that you are so quick to point out both PT's and Caldwells "flaws" as you say, while turning a blind eye to your own.

You know what they say about glass houses don't you?

How so?

 

Belfry has only lost one game and that was a team superior to anyone Tilghman has seen.

 

Tilghman has lost three games, all three of them in convincing fashion, and outside of their upset of MCCracken do not have wins equal to Belfry.

 

We won't even get into the fact that if the two teams one has proven they can overcome their issues in October while the other is notorious for November nosedives.

#5 I agree we will never agree on this one.

 

Good point to leave it. We just view the stats different and will continue to.

 

I enjoy the banter... Don't get many chances to do some research like that and it is in good fun.

 

We can revisit this when the dust settles in the Spring and fire it up again for next year.

 

If nothing else this exercise in the old polls also opened my eyes that rankings really are worthless until those 5 weeks in November play out.

 

We may be talking about how underrated the east is... I may be eating crow as I watch Tilghman hoist the trophy... Lawrence County might turn belfry over again but beat them this time... Who knows!

 

In the end the best team puts their name in the record book.

How so?

 

Belfry has only lost one game and that was a team superior to anyone Tilghman has seen.

 

Tilghman has lost three games, all three of them in convincing fashion, and outside of their upset of MCCracken do not have wins equal to Belfry.

 

We won't even get into the fact that if the two teams one has proven they can overcome their issues in October while the other is notorious for November nosedives.

 

You should be a politician, you can talk in different directions so quickly the ends run together.

 

You have played one good opponent, and got blown out.

Your next game against Lawrence you squeaked by after a sloppy turnover fest.

 

I am not sure where you believe you are so superior at?

 

We have played

1) Mc Cracken #7 in 6A

2) Central Hardin (who was healthy and ranked at the time)

3) Mayfield #1 in 2A (winner of about a million state Championships)

4)Graves County, last years 5A runner-up (knocked off that little team known as Bowling Green)

5)Madisonville -4A

6) Caldwell-#5 3A (most fans know it would have been a much better game had we not lost our starting qb in the first minute of the second quarter)

7) Trigg- 3A district

8) Union co.- 3A district

 

Here is where I stand on our debate, I am not saying PT is without its' flaws, but Belfry has not shown themselves to be exactly a juggernaut either. I just do not understand how your favorite activity in all these discussions is to bash PT (and to some degree Caldwell) and discredit any ranking they get while completely overlooking problems on your own end-

Did you maybe play back in 85 and swallow some sour grapes?

I have no beef with Belfry or its faithful, they could possibly be the best team at the end of the season, but your antipathy for PT gets old, give it a rest-

PT is ranked exactly where they should be.

 

Who has PT beat outside of McCracken that is on the same level as Belfrys wins?

 

You are still playing the graves runner up card? What have they done this year? Last year they were an one man team,,,, one really really good man who graduated. Graves isn't even Top 15 in 5A, a class not nearly as deep as 3A. If we want to play the runner-up card Belfry beat NewCath who unlike Graves still has a legit shot at getting back to Boeling Green.

 

How many wins does Madisonville have?

 

Trigg and Union... Those are two teams in the bottom of the class.

 

Aside from the McCracken win (who most view in the lines of bizarre upset like Knox Central over Central or Fleming Co over Russell) Belfry has 5 wins better than Tilghmans next win.

 

You don't see me touting them as the juggernaut of the class. They are #2 right now and truth be told the way they have played recently that may be generous right now. With that said Belfry isn't getting voted high because of my opinion and Tilghman isn't getting voted low because of my opinion as well.

 

Tilghman is ranked exactly where they should be based off their resume and so is Caldwell. Caldwell has a chance to improve that ranking if they can do what PT could not and play Mayfield respectable.

Here is what I say to the belly aching Caldwell and PT fans. Win 4 games, and maybe Belfry or whomever will have won their four and you can settle it on the field. Other wise shut up and quit downgrading a program that has won back to back titles. Seems really stupid to tout your own programs which have a real difficulty come November of even making it to a regional championship game.

You should be a politician, you can talk in different directions so quickly the ends run together.

 

You have played one good opponent, and got blown out.

Your next game against Lawrence you squeaked by after a sloppy turnover fest.

 

I am not sure where you believe you are so superior at?

 

We have played

1) Mc Cracken #7 in 6A

2) Central Hardin (who was healthy and ranked at the time)

3) Mayfield #1 in 2A (winner of about a million state Championships)

4)Graves County, last years 5A runner-up (knocked off that little team known as Bowling Green)

5)Madisonville -4A

6) Caldwell-#5 3A (most fans know it would have been a much better game had we not lost our starting qb in the first minute of the second quarter)

7) Trigg- 3A district

8) Union co.- 3A district

 

Here is where I stand on our debate, I am not saying PT is without its' flaws, but Belfry has not shown themselves to be exactly a juggernaut either. I just do not understand how your favorite activity in all these discussions is to bash PT (and to some degree Caldwell) and discredit any ranking they get while completely overlooking problems on your own end-

Did you maybe play back in 85 and swallow some sour grapes?

I have no beef with Belfry or its faithful, they could possibly be the best team at the end of the season, but your antipathy for PT gets old, give it a rest-

The reason most people look at PT the way they do is because they are one of the most undeachieving programs in the state. Like I said, win four games and play for a state championship. Heck, get to a semifinal and I will give you some of your praise you all are so longing for. And yes I know you won a championship a few years ago.

BTW, ATL is not bashing anyone, he is simply making a point that the road from the East is not always the cakewalk that people think it is and who really cares. Play the games and win them you bunch of whiners!

It's funny really that you did not even read my whole post.

I was only noting that ATL had called us flawed while he wasn't noting Belfrys loss and the Lawrence game.

I said I have respect for Belfry and that they could very well be the best at the end

So apparently you are the only whiner

ATLCat here is my version of Belfry. They are the reigning 3A state champions. Back to Back. No doubting it, and set the record straight as far as i am concerned Belfry and Central are the tops of 3A. PERIOD.

 

My banter is for seeded playoffs once regions are settled. I think it would do great things for KY football in general.

 

I love to research these topics, and debate them with knowledgeable individuals and do it in a respectful way. Sometimes that is tough as fan bases are soooooo do or die, and wear their hearts on their sleeves. That is great in its own right. Without these folks sites like this one are gone. That would be a shame.

 

Belfry, for me, is a prime example of why seeding is necessary. My point is not to degrade what they have acomplished, but to improve the process as a whole.

 

While doing this, regional Champions would get the acknowledgement they deserve and further stress each of their accomplishments. I feel like now a regional title is nothing more than another game in a playoff system. I mean heck we seed each region now, why not seed the region champs? Kind of a FINAL FOUR in 6 classes.

As I have said every time. We are in total agreement that I would love to see that type of system and would be the first person to sign that petition.

 

Unfortunately I don't think either of us will ever get out wish... The KHSAA is having a hard enough time figuring out the State Finals this year let alone neutral sites that would be needed for the Regional Finals and Semis.

 

I would love seeing a Saturday in November where two or three games are hosted at the same venue with a trip to the Finals on the line. Man that would be great!

I don't know if neutral sites are even necessary. Would be nice, but not totally necessary. Maybe if travel is over a certain time or distance one way. Mayfield and Corbin accomplished that. Boyle and Central wouldn't require that for instance.

My argument for Central over Belfry is a simple one, and for playoffs once regions have been settled. I didn't go back as far as you did ATLCat but the point is there I think.

2009 - East Somerset advancing by avg difference of 22ppg. West - PT advancing by Aug difference of 5 ppg. Champ PT. 21 to 0. Advantage west

 

2010 - East Belfry 16.5 ppg. West Central 17.5 ppg. Champ Central 46 to 7. Advantage west

2011 - East Belfry 11ppg. West Central 28 ppg. Champ Central 15 to 14. Advantage east

2012 - East Belfry 22ppg. West Central 5 ppg. Champ Central 12 to 6. Advantage west.

2013 - East Belfry 24 ppg. West Wayne 17 ppg. Champ Belfry 3 to 0. Advantage NONE

2014 - East Belfry 34 ppg West Central 3 ppg. Champ Belfry 14 to 7. Advantage west.

 

PPG represents score difference in regional finals and semis.

ADVANTAGE represents the more perceived parity based on score.

What I get from this is Central's three-year run and return in 2014 are weighed heavier than Belfry's 5 year run to a title game. Just slightly, but only because of the quality of opponent in the previous two rounds.

We both agree on 2013 and 2014. I add 2012 while Belfry definitely met the challenge in the title game, their road there was considerably easier. 2011 goes to Belfry having a tougher road there, Central snuck past them in the title game. 2010 shows a similar path to the title game as far as difference, but a convincing Central win showed their total dominance this time. 2009 gives the edge to the west again as PT snuck by and Somerset had a realitively easier road.

 

Please correct any misstated info. It's late.

Central Hardin was held to no touchdowns by South Warren, one TD by Bowling Green and one offensive TD by Boyle. Paducah Tilghman let Central Hardin go off for the Bruins' HIGHEST-SCORING game of the season (and Central Hardin played a down Meade County team and a down Bullitt East squad).

 

Outside of the McCracken game (which McCracken had several things go wrong), EVERY time Paducah Tilghman plays a halfway decent team, it gets gashed defensively.

 

Who would you say is Tilghman's best defensive performance of the year (Outside of the season opener, that is. If McCracken is PT's defensive highlight of the season, that ain't saying much).

 

And if the defensive highlight came against Madisonville (3-6, shut out by Owensboro), Trigg (2-7, hasn't broken 15 points in four straight games) or Union (5-3, held below 20 points in half its games), then defense isn't exactly a strong suit.

 

Talking to Central Hardin folks, Paducah Tilghman's main offense was the PT quarterback running around and his WRs/TEs/RBs making up their own routes backyard-football style.

 

Maybe PT has righted the ship since then, but even North Hardin -- NOT known for its defense at all -- gave up similar numbers to Caldwell as PT did (and North Hardin had a 3-hour bus ride after school).

 

Tilghman with their speed has, does and will always cause bad match ups for people (or at least very concerning ones). I don't compare scores much.

 

As some others have said, this 3A race might be a little more wide open than once thought (even though I still think it will be Boyle/Belfry in the finals).

 

Being the 6th, 7th, ranked team in 3A this year with the team speed they have doesn't make me think "Flawed". Their weaknesses are up front and depth at those spots. Flawed makes me think of 15-25 teams in each class, not 4-8.

 

I think McCracken is a great win. Matched up better with McCracken, too.