It has nothing to do with volleyball. This is how all state tournaments are bracketed.

 

This is absolutely false. Football has SIX classes and only 221 teams competing. Volleyball has ONE class and 261 teams competing. Cross Country has THREE classes (not sure of number of teams but I can't imagine it is more than 261).

 

I looked at the draw for 1A Football and it appears to be seeded. I don't know how to get it to show up on here but here is the link.

 

http://khsaa.org/football/2014/brackets/2014_1A.pdf

 

Please correct me if I am reading this wrong.

This is absolutely false. Football has SIX classes and only 221 teams competing. Volleyball has ONE class and 261 teams competing. Cross Country has THREE classes (not sure of number of teams but I can't imagine it is more than 261).

 

I looked at the draw for 1A Football and it appears to be seeded. I don't know how to get it to show up on here but here is the link.

 

http://khsaa.org/football/2014/brackets/2014_1A.pdf

 

Please correct me if I am reading this wrong.

 

Basketball, baseball, softball are not classed and not seeded when it comes to the state tournament.

 

Football districts are seeded and so is Volleyball, basketball, baseball, and softball.

Volleyball needs classes.... Period

 

How many more years of domination do you need before you change it. Football went from 4 to 6 classes for less reasons than exist in volleyball.

Basketball, baseball, softball are not classed and not seeded when it comes to the state tournament.

 

Football districts are seeded and so is Volleyball, basketball, baseball, and softball.

 

So you agree that all sports are not the same in KY? If special circumstances exist for football and cross country (fall sports like volleyball) then why can't something be done for volleyball?

Everyone's complaint seems to be around the Championship game not being a competitive match. I admit, that's a shame. However, the best team at the time of the state tournament will win the state tournament, of that, I have no doubt. So although, the one side is overweight strong teams, the best team from that side will emerge to play in the Championship.

 

So other than the letdown of the Championship game, we will still know who the best in the state is when this season closes out.

 

In other words, the system still works. The best team in the state is left standing at the end.

Everyone's complaint seems to be around the Championship game not being a competitive match. I admit, that's a shame. However, the best team at the time of the state tournament will win the state tournament, of that, I have no doubt. So although, the one side is overweight strong teams, the best team from that side will emerge to play in the Championship.

 

So other than the letdown of the Championship game, we will still know who the best in the state is when this season closes out.

 

In other words, the system still works. The best team in the state is left standing at the end.

And 30+ years of the same few schools winning the state championship is just a coincidence .... Nothing broken with the volleyball championship .... Huh

Other states have divisions, split private versus public, and seed their tournaments.

 

I'm not an expert on volleyball, but I do know.....NO public school WILL EVER win the state tourney under the current format.

So you agree that all sports are not the same in KY? If special circumstances exist for football and cross country (fall sports like volleyball) then why can't something be done for volleyball?

 

If you are saying some have classes then yes they are different. Football districts is seeded just like volleyball, baseball, softball, and basketball.

 

In volleyball just like baseball, softball, and basketball after districts it is all the same. There is a blind draw for regionals and for state.

Everyone's complaint seems to be around the Championship game not being a competitive match. I admit, that's a shame. However, the best team at the time of the state tournament will win the state tournament, of that, I have no doubt. So although, the one side is overweight strong teams, the best team from that side will emerge to play in the Championship.

 

So other than the letdown of the Championship game, we will still know who the best in the state is when this season closes out.

 

In other words, the system still works. The best team in the state is left standing at the end.

 

Actually, you are mistaken. Yes a great team will come out of the bottom half of the bracket. Will it be the best team in the state...I don't know because the state tournament has so many issues besides the blind draw.

 

The bottom half of the bracket historically has been scheduled to start at 5:00 pm on Friday. The last four years that has never happened. It is always at least an hour to 90 minutes behind. Two years ago, the bottom half of the bracket was 2 hours behind. The final match did not end until after 11:00 pm. The turn around to a long day 2 (Saturday) at the tournament was quick with the winners on Friday playing Saturday at 1:00 and 2:30, again matches that typically running at least an hour late. So by the time the 2:30 match starts (3:15 at the earliest) it can go until 4:00-5:30 or something. With the lower bracket semifinal being at 8:30 again, quick turn around for teams that play pretty much the same 10 girls each match.

 

Again, I remember two years ago Mercy and Assumption played an epic semifinal that started at 7:00 and went five. Incredible match that took well over 2 hours. By the time the lower bracket semi final started it was 9:45, those teams left the gym after 11:30 and had to eat, shower, get treatment, etc just to turn around and get up for the STATE FINAL early the next day...again eat, treatment, tape, etc.

 

I am sure you see my argument. Not only are the best teams in the state all in one bracket but they are in the side of the bracket that, historically, is at a scheduling disadvantage as well.

I rarely complain without a proposed solution so here it is:

Seed the top 8 teams based on research, observation and results against the field. It is not that difficult. USA Volleyball is able to seed pretty accurately National Tournaments based on the above. To get the Top 8 teams right in one state when most play each other is not that difficult. If you don't want to do Top 8 then do Top 4. The remainder of the schools get drawn as to who they play. At least the big 4 aren't playing each other until the semis.

 

Play the first round on Wednesday at the higher seed's school or start the state tournament (like they do for basketball on Wed and Thursday....but that would involve securing a new venue other than Valley High). Travel may be an issue for some of the teams but they have to travel to Louisville anyway to play one match so travel to another part of the state from the extreme east or west is not really too different. Costs should be about the same.

 

With the first round out of the way the remaining teams in the tournament travel to Louisville for quarter final play on Friday, Semi Finals on Saturday and Finals on Sunday. One match a day, the girls can put their best effort forward, they have ample time to recover, rest and prepare for the next opponent. (I haven't even gotten into the fact of difficulties surrounding scouting and giving those scouting reports to the teams before the matches when your Friday match runs late). And truly the best teams remain and are given a chance to play at their best.

 

The bottom line is that all sports are different and the KHSAA has historically treated volleyball like a second class citizen. I think the powers that be think we still play 8 to a side and serve underhanded...'a nice little sport for the girls to play, but it's not football/basketball'. The facts are it is one of the fastest growing sports nationally and in our state. More girls from our state go to college on volleyball scholarships than any other sports and it is the ONLY sport in our state that has consistent presence on the National Scene.

And 30+ years of the same few schools winning the state championship is just a coincidence .... Nothing broken with the volleyball championship .... Huh

 

It is not the KHSAA's fault that some kids start earlier, train harder and better and happen to choose to go to a high school that is good at volleyball. The last 30 years (with the rare exception) the best team has won the state championship. Public schools need to get on board and follow the privates if they want a chance. It's plain and simple. Now if you want to argue classes, I would agree with you. It is not fair for a Beechwood, Loui Holy Cross, St. Henry to have to compete with the NDA, Henry Clay's, and other Big Schools.

I don't think the smaller schools like Louisville HC, St. Henry, Beechwood, Presentation, Allen Central, etc. are collectively asking for a change. There is already a small school tournament and it's called The All 'A' Classic. Most folks that represent the larger schools already dismiss that tournament as a small school tournament. If a change was made to divide into classes, that winner would be discounted as well. Same is true, if it were public and private. The public school tournament would be discounted by the private school fans.

 

I know almost everyone on here disagrees with me, but I don't see the point in splitting the tournament. The All 'A' seems to be a suitable replacement. To me, it's on the larger public schools like Dixie, Boone, Ryle, etc. to find a way to compete in the State Tournament. They are approximately the same size as Assumption, Mercy, NDA, and SH.

 

Back to the crux of this thread...the final game will not be the climatic showdown between two great teams. That climatic showdown will come one game before in the final four game.

 

wxyz - I'm quite sure that despite the short turnaround, the bottom bracket will still emerge as the State Champion. However, the inequality of that turnaround needs to be addressed. I do agree with that.

There are several converging issues here, not necessarily fixable by the same solution, and each one overlapping the other.

 

Issue 1: Small schools - both public and private, both rural and city, have no chance to win State. They don't. Do not quote me Holy Cross in girls basketball. Volleyball is completely different.

 

Solution: Classes is the only way to fix this in Volleyball.

 

Problem: Then the small private schools will dominate the smaller class.

 

Issue 2: Private schools, regardless of size, completely dominate KY HS volleyball.

 

Solution: honestly, it's that public schools and their players have to get better. Less basketball, more volleyball. More club. Start earlier. Qualified coaches. Treat it as a priority, not the 2nd or 3rd sport. There are many public schools with a female enrollment that's equal or greater than the privates, so the talent pool is there, it's just not being developed.

 

Alternative: Kick the private schools out of the KHSAA. But what does that accomplish?

 

Issue 3: The KHSAA tries to run every sport like basketball - and it's not working for volleyball.

 

Solutions: Re-draw the Regions for volleyball, placing more Regions in the volleyball hotbeds of Louisville, NKY, and Lexington.

 

or..Keep the 16 Region winners and add 6 at-large teams and make the field 24, play the extra games on Friday.

 

And play the Friday and Saturday rounds at 2 locations so there is no time advantage to teams in the upper half of the bracket.

 

Discussion: What is fair? What is fair to all? Is it fair that only one - Assumption OR Sacred Heart - get to go to State every year, while Region XX sends their team? Do you re-draw the Regions to get more teams from the power Regions in, meaning less teams from the rest of the State? Do you add 6 at-large State tournament invites?

 

Can the KHSAA recognize that volleyball is a very different sport and may need some changes?

at large teams?

 

That would be debated and really don't see how you can give at-large bids to a HS state tournament.

I don't think the smaller schools like Louisville HC, St. Henry, Beechwood, Presentation, Allen Central, etc. are collectively asking for a change. There is already a small school tournament and it's called The All 'A' Classic. Most folks that represent the larger schools already dismiss that tournament as a small school tournament. If a change was made to divide into classes, that winner would be discounted as well. Same is true, if it were public and private. The public school tournament would be discounted by the private school fans.

 

I know almost everyone on here disagrees with me, but I don't see the point in splitting the tournament. The All 'A' seems to be a suitable replacement. To me, it's on the larger public schools like Dixie, Boone, Ryle, etc. to find a way to compete in the State Tournament. They are approximately the same size as Assumption, Mercy, NDA, and SH.

 

Back to the crux of this thread...the final game will not be the climatic showdown between two great teams. That climatic showdown will come one game before in the final four game.

 

wxyz - I'm quite sure that despite the short turnaround, the bottom bracket will still emerge as the State Champion. However, the inequality of that turnaround needs to be addressed. I do agree with that.

 

Assumption has almost twice the amount of girls that most large public schools do.

Assumption has almost twice the amount of girls that most large public schools do.

 

That's not even close to being true.

 

Off the top of my head I can name 10 schools that all have more girls than Assumption...Scott Co, Henry Clay, PLD, Eastern, Henderson Co, Ballard, Lafayette, DuPont Manual, Pleasure Ridge, Central Hardin.

 

And that's just Assumption, the list gets huge if I include NDA and Mercy who have HUNDREDS less girls than Assumption (and hundreds less than Sacred Heart too)