All of that said, I didn't hate on the police...in every case there was something I could have done a little differently that wouldn't have brought me to their attention. Now at the time I wouldn't have admitted that I could have avoided the police because in my younger days "I was never wrong :lol2:"

 

 

I'm guessing you are a white male. I'm going to guess that some people can't help their skin color and that there's not really much you can do to change that and make someone feel differently about you. Like it or not, the sad truth and reality of the situation is that it happens and it's asinine to deny it doesn't happen from time to time.

 

I've had a client who was put in the hospital by a police officer and was left in very bad shape. He was an unarmed man who had the mental capacity of a 12 year old and in confusion, walked into a home in his Mother's neighborhood thinking it was his Mother's. I was representing him in a separate matter and only found out about the situation from an administrator because I'd scheduled some interviews with him that weren't going to be able to be fulfilled.

 

If I were able to go into more detail about some of the things I've seen from the other side, I'm going to say I could tell you more horror stories.

 

Obviously, all police officers aren't the kind of scumbags who'd put a mentally retarded man in the hospital with some serious injuries, but it's burying your head in the sand if you don't think people like that exist and that there are people who become police officers for all the wrong reasons.

I'm guessing you are a white male. I'm going to guess that some people can't help their skin color and that there's not really much you can do to change that and make someone feel differently about you. Like it or not, the sad truth and reality of the situation is that it happens and it's asinine to deny it doesn't happen from time to time.

 

I've had a client who was put in the hospital by a police officer and was left in very bad shape. He was an unarmed man who had the mental capacity of a 12 year old and in confusion, walked into a home in his Mother's neighborhood thinking it was his Mother's. I was representing him in a separate matter and only found out about the situation from an administrator because I'd scheduled some interviews with him that weren't going to be able to be fulfilled.

 

If I were able to go into more detail about some of the things I've seen from the other side, I'm going to say I could tell you more horror stories.

 

Obviously, all police officers aren't the kind of scumbags who'd put a mentally retarded man in the hospital with some serious injuries, but it's burying your head in the sand if you don't think people like that exist and that there are people who become police officers for all the wrong reasons.

My point is that YES I am a white man and I've also had several unhappy encounters with the police...doesn't mean that I hate on all police because I made decision that brought me to their attention.

 

Just because someone is black, every interaction that they have with the police isn't because they are black. Just like me, in most cases they did something that caused the interaction to take place. And just like me even if they feel they did nothing wrong there are two ways to handle it, like a jerk or in a respectful manner. Trust me your never going to win when you act like a jerk.

 

I've never buried my head in the sand and I've never said that their weren't bad people in every profession including Law Enforcement.

As far as your man with the mentality of a 12 year old there is no excuse for beating him, I have no idea what happened so I'll take your word that it was 100% unwarranted.

 

But there are also a lot of grown men with the mentality of a 12 year old in prison or mental institutions for heinous crimes.

My point is that YES I am a white man and I've also had several unhappy encounters with the police...doesn't mean that I hate on all police because I made decision that brought me to their attention.

 

Just because someone is black, every interaction that they have with the police isn't because they are black. Just like me, in most cases they did something that caused the interaction to take place. And just like me even if they feel they did nothing wrong there are two ways to handle it, like a jerk or in a respectful manner. Trust me your never going to win when you act like a jerk.

 

I've never buried my head in the sand and I've never said that their weren't bad people in every profession including Law Enforcement.

 

 

Where did I even say that? Explaining white privilege to someone who actually gets to experience it is, in my opinion, one of the reasons there's so many negative feelings on each side of the issue though.

 

There are plenty of black people who are intelligent and don't do anything wrong, are far more educated than the police officer in question, but still get crapped on and insulted by some goon officers. BTW, it's not just black people that it happens to. The client in my story above was Hispanic. No one makes a decision about things like the color of their skin like you made decisions to do something stupid back in college that drew attention to yourself.

 

I do agree though, you can handle things like a jerk or in a respectful manner.

 

I don't think it's very respectful if an officer violates someone's rights. Disrespect is what ends up getting people arrested just like it's what winds up making some clowns find out what else they have to fall back on once they've been fired. I don't think educated people using lawful means is "disrespectful", and it's not my fault I went to law school and actually know what's legal and what's not that someone didn't get in back in Criminal Justice 101. Sorry if I would hurt someone's feelings if I'm in the right and don't want to kiss their butt over something they're obviously wrong about if it comes to court or something bad enough happens to me.

 

I wouldn't be a jerk about it in a situation I was in personally, but I'll also treat people with the respect they show myself and others. Some people that do want to be jerks in personal situations involving themselves and police, and they may be the kind of people who get arrested, but they may also be the kind of people that someone winds up paying a huge settlement to and leaving someone looking for a new career.

 

That's not me hating on police, that's me hating on police who don't do their jobs right and are disrespectful just like it's hating on people who think they know the law that make YouTube videos of them being idiots and trying to play lawyer after they've Googled a few articles.

 

 

Finally, I don't "hate all police", but I'm not going to say that I'm fond of "all" police either. Just because I make a statement about my observations that there are some officers who shouldn't be in their positions doesn't mean I "hate all police". I'm the guy whose been posting positive stories here when I see them.

 

If you want to go ahead and defend the police officers who put a mentally retarded man in the hospital with serious injuries because he walked into the wrong house (near his mother's while looking for her), then please, be my guest. That's the kind of police officers I'm not a fan of, and kind of perspective on where I'm coming from with my previous statement. Pointing out that things like that do happen isn't "hating all police", and I'd imagine that plenty of people would agree there.

Edited October 12, 201412 yr by JokersWild24

I in no way defended those actions and you know it.

 

I don't think you are getting the intent if what I was saying based on that response.

 

Maybe I'm not getting your point either.

...

Edited October 12, 201412 yr by Jumper_Dad

I in no way defended those actions and you know it.

 

I don't think you are getting the intent if what I was saying based on that response.

 

Maybe I'm not getting your point either.

 

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to say/imply you were, I was more just trying to pose a rhetorical question.

 

I was just trying to say that sometimes I'm critical of police officers because working as an attorney, especially in a Legal Aid setting, you see some things that will make you cringe. I don't hate all police officers, and I hope that me being critical of some of them is being taken as such, but there's a fairly considerable portion who've also pulled some crap.

 

I've personally seen some things happen to people in those situations who were really solid people and doing nothing wrong when what happened really for no other reason than their skin color. I don't attribute that to all police officers, but I've also seen and heard of enough things happen in terms of police misconduct to say that it's something where there are some problems.

 

There are plenty of lawyers who are horrible people who shouldn't be practicing, I've seen military members in court with damaging evidence of their having badly abused their spouse, things like that. The police profession is no different, and I think that for the segment of officers who are trouble and shouldn't be there, how they've handled racial incidents is more prevalent than it should be. I don't think all police are racists or anything like that, and would say that there are plenty who don't care about it at all, but there's also a considerable amount who you can't say that for either.

What I'm trying to say: fair or unfair, I've been exposed enough to things in the legal world where I don't give police officers the benefit of the doubt "just because".

 

I also think it's extremely ignorant to assume that everyone who has a negative experience with a police officer "was asking for it" or "should have acted differently" just like it's ignorant when people always assume that police always had to have done something wrong. That's a smack in the face to hard working, otherwise completely wholesome people who've accomplished more than enough to have to put up with some of the crap they've had to from some jerkoff that thinks he's hot because he's fresh outta some crap school's Criminal Justice program, can do some pushups and take orders or some goof whose been in the same role on Campus PD for 20 years and still thinks it's some kind of lifetime achievement unlocked and acts like it in all their dealings.

 

I can rattle off plenty of instances where someone has overstepped their bounds and done things that were blatantly illegal, and it's bad enough that it's probably worse than the "99.9% of police officers do their job well and it's just the bad .01% that everyone picks on". If you have a problem with that, then you should get over the fact that sometimes, just making a cop mad isn't an arrestable offense. You know, like when you are asking for something completely legal. You think that citizen is a jerk? Wait until you meet their lawyer or an Internal Affairs Trial Board defending a ticked off citizen and it's no longer a traffic stop where it's your way or the highway and it's unusual that someone "appears to be reaching for a weapon" or "advances toward you in a threatening manner"... uh oh.

 

Obviously that's all pretty pretentious of me to say I think I know the law better than most people, but hell, I think 5 summers of internships, 3 years of sometimes having to study my damn face off, 1 year as a TA (again, during law school), missing holidays with family to study for finals, and all the other sacrifice that's came with it qualifies me to say that I probably know the law well enough that if I'm going to argue that I'm right about something in that area, then I've probably got a damn good jump. Given that, give me some credit with statements like, "Just because someone is black, every interaction that they have with the police isn't because they are black. Just like me, in most cases they did something that caused the interaction to take place." No crap... this whole time I was thinking every black person in the history of the world was innocent (they actually tell us that first day of Con Crim Pro, just to clear it up for anyone who had any doubts... literally one of the first things they teach you is that every black person who has an interaction with police isn't because they are black).

 

 

When I'm talking about white privilege, I'm talking about a distinguished Harvard professor being arrested for "breaking into his own house" by some Boston police officer who isn't even smart enough to keep his mouth shut and gives a statement that reads like, "I'm not racist... I tried performing CPR on Len Bias". I mean, I know, there's probably so many times that's happened to a white dude that we just forget them because they all run together.

 

What about the time a professor was arrested by some kid whose Dad's connections at ASU couldn't even get him out of it for long enough that it didn't end up getting a few members of the department fired too? You know the guy, he's always going to have his article in the ASU newspaper working in the Dispatch Center with his Stepmom to look back on as glory days. He'll probably be at his 20 year high school reunion, talking about nailing the prom queen and shootin' em' up at ASU. Heck, he doesn't even have to wait that long, he can probably show that off when he actually goes to college (not surprisingly, he doesn't have a diploma, but someone thought it'd be a good idea to let him hit a freaking professor and 1 of 6 President's Scholars at the school with freaking felonies while your school is trying to increase enrollment). Remember that one? It was when the lady with a doctorate from a Top 50 school who'd just finished teaching a class, the one that was brazenly jaywalking on a closed street? Remember, there was a 911 call from a citizen who said, "this officer is being way too aggressive with a lady", but people just wanted to dismiss that because "the caller didn't know what was going on". That's a little confusing, because hell, if it's a guy making a 911 call that leads to a shooting in Wal-Mart or one that led to the media circus in the Django actress' case (which I was badly wrong about and I'll freely admit), then that 911 call is all the evidence you need, probable cause sealed, send it to the grand jury and let's cut some heads off. I wonder what happened to the ASU kid's body mic or the tape of the initial stop (which saved the LAPD officer from someone's vindictive lie)? I think a lot of people are still waiting on those. They probably teach things like that in the advanced Criminal Justice 202 and Little Stewie's high school only offered the AP class up to 201. Don't worry though, we've had pieces of his side of the story because someone who knew him well and supported him was dense enough to write a freaking editorial to a local paper talking about how wholesome he was because.... wait for it.... "he went on a Mormon mission". Personally, I'd have told my supporter to can it even if they meant well given the circumstances and considering that my religion only though people like Mrs. Ore (you know "black" people) could hold ranks in their church all the way back in 1978. This is this goof's decision making, but the sad part is, it's not part of The Book of Mormon script, but you'll still have people running to his aid because he's a police officer while the joke is lost on most others. Maybe I'm being too hard on Ferrin. I'll give him credit, it appears that he was probably at least smart enough to listen to his lawyer-- now if he could work on his communication skills with smart people (like Mr. Heckendorn or Mrs. Ore), then he'd probably have been able to convince the genius on his PR team to quit talking for him as well. Everyone wants to be up in arms about the possibility that people who are suspected of crimes have their records released, but I haven't really heard a peep about the fact that ASU still hasn't released Ferrin's personnel file listing complaints. You'd think they'd want to clear his good name and get the truth out there.

 

Let's move on from academia though. Need more? How about this guy, the one who dared do the completely legal acts like recording in public and telling some kids who were probably getting hassled that they could legally request a badge number. What was he doing to "ask for it", what was so illegal? I think the illegal behavior was arresting someone who made was conducting lawful activity and informed another citizen about making a lawful request just because you didn't like what they had to say.

 

Guess what? Making a cop mad can get you arrested. Guess what else, illegally arresting and subsequently strip searching a citizen who was completely within his rights means you are the jerk, you are going to lose your frickin' job when he takes it to court proves what happened, and you are lucky you are in a profession that will let you be proven guilty of something like that, yet still "bow out" with fewer penalties than 95% of the population who'd done the same would get and that it's taxpayers who'll save your stupidity and pick up the tab.

 

The law doesn't work just because an officer having a bad day can stick someone with any number of vague charges decides he doesn't like a part of the law that doesn't suit him. As an officer you can legally take someone to jail for jaywalking, not wearing a seatbelt, disorderly conduct, and the like, and some officers just love flexing those. At the same time, those parts that don't suit you might still be the ones that someone will bust your rear over in court, so yea... it's kind of dumb to ignore those. Like any other person at their job, breaking some rules are bad enough that if you do, you aren't going to last very long, and I'm probably not going to feel very sorry for you, even if you think those are "dumb liberal laws" and "liberals are ruining our damn country". I don't know how many times I've wanted to reply to someone who criticizes me over talking about why an officer lost his job by telling me "how the citizen could have avoided the whole thing", "well, here's how the officer could have kept his job".

 

Maybe I'm stereotyping, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this guy probably doesn't have a slush fund capable of paying the judgment that's going to be dropped on him. He was suspended for 45 days for showing up to a side job, in uniform no less, drunk and shouting racial slurs at black customers. He also had some other write ups at off-duty jobs (performed in uniform). You'd think given the amount of time he'd spent in full get-up, he wouldn't have all of the trouble he's had getting his story straight after shooting an unarmed customer in the drive thru. He was claiming that he was unruly because of a wreck, but security footage hasn't backed his story. How many times do you think someone who worked a normal job would get away with what he did and not be fired? How many of those jobs involve the power to arrest someone, carry a gun anywhere, and to serve and protect the population?

 

What about the cop in Chicago who was just convicted for torturing over 100 white guys and left prison after 3.5 years and kept his pension? Wait, that's not how the story goes? I can't remember, that thread was, like, all of a week ago.

 

Yea... all of those people could have done things differently and you'd have handled it differently. They probably want to hear people tell them about what they should have done too.

 

 

How to solve this whole thing once and for all. Really, this is what we should do:

 

• Let's Monday morning QB the freaking Harvard professor about someone whose yearly pay is what he probably spends on his freaking vacation about his decision making and how he could make better life choices.
  
• 
  
• Go tell the kid's family who lost a son to a gunshot in the back while he was in a drive-thru about what he should have done to avoid the situation, I mean, after all, they may have another kid, and since they've already lost one, they can take our advice and make sure it doesn't happen again.
  
• 
  
• The guy who spent 30 years in prison protesting his innocence after a confession coerced by torture who just saw the guy who tortured him in and out in around 1/10th of that time and keeping his pension would just love to meet up at Starbucks, have a latte and reminisce about how you acted in a situation where a police officer made you uncomfortable once but you were able to keep cool and avoid it. He'd probably love to hear the "awww, shucks... it'da shore happened to me too".
  

 

 

The point I'm trying to make: you've probably never been in that situation and hearing someone who supports police on almost every front talk about "if you'd just act like I do then you wouldn't have that problem". Maybe you've been lucky enough to get respect from officers that other people don't automatically get, and it probably has much less to do with your actions than you'd think.

 

Maybe if I actually used Google for this, then we'd have more examples, but I think my point is pretty solid considering that aside from the Henry Gates situation, all of the other events have been in the news in the past couple of months, but, no worries, 99.9% of officers are doing their job right and it's the bad .01% that we're all picking on. It's just been an awful two to three months for them so I'll just quit smearing them now. I'm just not sure that an automatic "blame the victim" really gets far, and that some of those people or their loved ones don't want to hear a "well, I had my guard up because, well, you know..." explanation.

 

I think a lot of some of our posters who've shared their feelings on this issue while trying to have a discussion only to be met with even more criticism and "you must have been doing something" or "the same thing would have happened to me" is a tad myopic. I'm going to break it down like this: I'm going to guess that no one joined BGP and is really pulling a long con that's some revenge plot for the guy who gave them a freaking speeding ticket 10 years ago if they did, hats off to them, they've sure fooled me.

 

 

Rant over and all that said, there are some police officers I'd legally defend tooth and nail. I have friends and family who work in law enforcement. I don't think all police officers are dumb. I think that it's really noble when someone is in the job for the right reasons and does it well. I know all police officers aren't racist, etc. I also think there are also some police officers who aren't fit to wear their badge, and really have trouble conceptualizing how more people who take their profession seriously enough to defend it so staunchly don't at least understand why so many people who aren't police officers are in such disagreement.

So much for this being a thread about "Positive Police Stories"

Edited October 13, 201412 yr by Jumper_Dad

As far as your man with the mentality of a 12 year old there is no excuse for beating him, I have no idea what happened so I'll take your word that it was 100% unwarranted.

 

But there are also a lot of grown men with the mentality of a 12 year old in prison or mental institutions for heinous crimes.

 

Just saw this comment.

 

I'm not saying it was unwarranted that they tased, restrained him roughly or something like that initially, but I also feel like it's pretty obvious that something was wrong with him, that he was very feeble and had medical issues that wouldn't have even really made him able to "fight back" or "resist" for very long, if it all, and that there was no way he should have ended up in the hospital for the time he was.

With all the negative police stories posted, I thought it would be good to post a positive one. One of the thousands that never get noticed.

 

Pittsburgh Police Detective Adopts Two Boys In Need Of A Home « CBS Pittsburgh

 

I just saw this story. Beautiful.