Here's another one. DEA agents raided this woman's home because an informant told the DEA that the woman's daughter had told them that she left the proceeds from her drug sales at her mother's home. The suspected drug dealing daughter did not live at the apartment with her mother. The DEA burst in the apartment. The 49 year old woman was sitting in the living room. Also in the living room were her 10 year old daughter and 2 grandchildren, ages 4 and 1. The woman reached down to pick up the baby and was shot by an officer. Thankfully she survived and the children were not hurt. No drugs or money was found and no charges were filed against the woman that was shot. This raid was the result of an almost year long investigation. You would think that they would have had a good idea that there would be children present and it could have been handled differently. Here's the link:

 

Affidavits show woman was shot as feds conducted downtown Manchester drug raid | New Hampshire Crime

Wondering AverageJoe will ever post one of the thousands of examples of when one of these work perfectly?

 

Also the second one doesn't sound to me like a "No knock" or "SWAT" search warrant. Someone opened the door and let them in...

AJG, what is your solution? Never use no knock warrants? Never use SWAT?

AJG, what is your solution? Never use no knock warrants? Never use SWAT?

 

I never said not to ever use SWAT. However, the two cases above show that sometimes the use of SWAT might not have been thought through very well. Certainly the warrant served on the woman was not thought out very well. It was the DEA, not SWAT in that case but if they had spent that much time investigating the case they had to have known that children were present. Whether it was a no knock or not they certainly didn't knock, identify themselves and calmly enter the premises. Otherwise the woman wouldn't have scrambled to get the baby and gotten shot. As for the other case: When you're talking about a small-time dealer why don't you just pick them up while they're out and then search the place?

I never said not to ever use SWAT. However, the two cases above show that sometimes the use of SWAT might not have been thought through very well. Certainly the warrant served on the woman was not thought out very well. It was the DEA, not SWAT in that case but if they had spent that much time investigating the case they had to have known that children were present. Whether it was a no knock or not they certainly didn't knock, identify themselves and calmly enter the premises. Otherwise the woman wouldn't have scrambled to get the baby and gotten shot. As for the other case: When you're talking about a small-time dealer why don't you just pick them up while they're out and then search the place?

 

So in response to my question you have no suggestions. Instead you would rather play Monday morning QB and start a thread or make post pointing out every mistake LE makes.

 

Here's reality. Crap happens, mistakes are made. Unless your are ready for LE to resemble something out of Demolition Man, you do your best with the info you have and you try like heck to eliminate the mistakes and errors. Nothing in this world is 100%, and when you look at the shear volume of warrants served and arrests made every year I would guess LE has a pretty record on getting it right.

Here's another fatality due to a SRT raid on a home due to the information provided by a burglar and meth addict. The guy that provided the information broke into the victim's house and ended up stealing an SUV. The burglar claimed that the scales and 20 grams of meth found on him when he was taken into custody came out of the victim's vehicle. The police obtained a warrant to search the victim's house and busted down the door. The victim's wife saw a couple of shadowy figures outside and told her husband that the burglars from 2 nights before were back. The victim went to get his shotgun to defend his house. Since he was holding it when the door was broken down they fired at least 16 shots. He was hit by several and died from his wounds. The GBI conducted a 44 hour search of the property and no drugs or contraband of any kind was found.

 

This guy was a contractor that worked on at least 2 army bases. He had passed several background checks and had a security clearance. He didn't exactly fit the profile of a drug kingpin. His home had been burglarized 2 days before yet that didn't stop the police from conducting a no knock warrant. Now he's dead for what amounted to defending his home from what he perceived to be a threat. Here's the story:

 

David Hooks' family investigating his death

 

This is what I'm talking about. The guy that gave them the information that they used to obtain the warrant was beyond sketchy. It would seem like it would have been a much better idea to just show up with a warrant, knock on the door, and search the house. Or, wait until the guy came out to go to work, take him into custody and execute the warrant. This wasn't a warrant served on a hardened criminal in a seedy part of town.

Edited October 7, 201411 yr by AverageJoesGym

Did they knock?

Did they knock?

 

I'd say we'll have to wait on the GBI investigation to determine that. According to the man's wife they did not, they broke the back door down and came in. I understand the officers shooting the man if he had a shotgun pointed at them, I just question the need for the warrant to be served in this manner using these tactics. It seems to have put several people in harm's way unnecessarily.

So in response to my question you have no suggestions. Instead you would rather play Monday morning QB and start a thread or make post pointing out every mistake LE makes.

 

Here's reality. Crap happens, mistakes are made. Unless your are ready for LE to resemble something out of Demolition Man, you do your best with the info you have and you try like heck to eliminate the mistakes and errors. Nothing in this world is 100%, and when you look at the shear volume of warrants served and arrests made every year I would guess LE has a pretty record on getting it right.

 

I am a big proponent of law enforcement (I have a family member who is a retired policeman) but the no knock warrants bother me. They should be used VERY SPARINGLY and only when going after violent criminals. Imagine your horror if you are sleeping at home one night and the police come in screaming with guns drawn...especially if you have a family. And then find out they acted on erroneous information or got the address wrong. This is America and we should be safe from the police kicking down our doors unless they have very strong evidence that the people inside are VIOLENT criminals. Even then, other means should be used first like casing the house and waiting for the person to leave the house, apprehend him and then search.

 

I am a big proponent of law enforcement (I have a family member who is a retired policeman) but the no knock warrants bother me. They should be used VERY SPARINGLY and only when going after violent criminals. Imagine your horror if you are sleeping at home one night and the police come in screaming with guns drawn...especially if you have a family. And then find out they acted on erroneous information or got the address wrong. This is America and we should be safe from the police kicking down our doors unless they have very strong evidence that the people inside are VIOLENT criminals. Even then, other means should be used first like casing the house and waiting for the person to leave the house, apprehend him and then search.

 

How many people do you know that have been victims if erroneous no knock warrants? How many people do you know that have had a no knock warrant served at their house?

 

I don't think it's as widespread as done want peolpe to think. Not saying that mistakes should be ignored...saying you don't need to fear police randomly kicking in your door.

How many people do you know that have been victims if erroneous no knock warrants? How many people do you know that have had a no knock warrant served at their house?

 

I don't think it's as widespread as done want peolpe to think. Not saying that mistakes should be ignored...saying you don't need to fear police randomly kicking in your door.

 

I don't know anyone who has been served a no knock warrant, either correctly or erroneously. That is not the point though. Even if served on the correct person who is as guilty as sin, I would guess more often than not, other means could have been used other than a no knock warrant.

 

I don't know anyone who has been served a no knock warrant, either correctly or erroneously. That is not the point though. Even if served on the correct person who is as guilty as sin, I would guess more often than not, other means could have been used other than a no knock warrant.

 

What exactly are you basing that on? Each case is obviously unique...but what is the percentage of no knock warrants that result in injury or death? Does anyone even know? Does anyone know the percentage of no knock warrants that are served on the wrong people? Or does anyone have statistics on injuries/deaths in no knock warrants vs other types?

 

I'm all for doing things better, but I'm not going to blindly accept that the police are over using no knock warrants for no reason because AverageJoe says so.

No charges for the Georgia cop who threw a stun grenade into a baby's crib during drug raid that found no drugs: http://t.co/cIV22fl1Qj

I'm all for doing things better' date=' but I'm not going to blindly accept that the police are over using no knock warrants for no reason because AverageJoe says so.[/quote']

 

It goes down smoother if you go ahead and give an obligatory eye roll before reading his posts

It goes down smoother if you go ahead and give an obligatory eye roll before reading his posts

 

So you think its okay that this guy is dead? Especially given that there were no drugs found? You don't think we should ever question tactics used when things go wrong? A man is dead here because the police took bogus information and decided to bust down his door 2 days after his home was burglarized by their informant. If I were the officers involved in the raid I'd be extremely upset. Not only did they appear to have killed an innocent man but several of them could have been injured and killed in the process. Questions should be raised on the decision making process here. And this is not an isolated incident.